Exactly. Calling atheism a belief just like religion is absurd. That’s like if I were to say underground lizard people control the government, then branding you a non-lizard-eist for not believing me. It’s not a belief system, it’s just the logical default when no evidence is presented.
The “atheism is just another belief” talking point is popular in religious circles because it’s a little mental game they can play to try and make their lack of evidence equal to someone saying they lack evidence. They frame atheism as an assertion that no gods exist, which is therefore equal to a religious person making the assertion that their god does exist. We know that in reality, lack of belief in something (anything) is passive and the default (I’m not gonna believe that lizard people live in the sewers unless you prove it to me), but they try to frame it as an active claim because then it’s just a bunch of people claiming different things.
It’s just another form of deceit they wrap around themselves to hide from the fact that they have no actual evidence of the divine existing.
Agnosticism is not some sort of ‘weak atheism’, it is a completely independent thing, you can have gnostic theists, gnostic atheists, agnostic theists and agnostic atheists. It just means that you believe something can be known about the existence of god vs. you believe nothing can be known about it.
You raise a good point. I feel like my personal issue is with gnostic atheists, who proudly trumpet that since human beings cannot prove that God exists then he must not exist and any attempt to think or act otherwise is just foolishness.
I’m much more conversationally compatible with the agnostic atheists who say we can’t know that God exists so most likely he does not.
To be fair, there are assholes in all four quadrants, and my actual beef is with the assholes who feel like they need to force their belief or their lack thereof on me.
I would feel the same way about a militant zoroastrian who expects me to convert to their religion as I would against a militant Gnostic atheist who expects me to abandon my own.
And I also understand that many atheists have been antagonized by militant Christians for not believing and so therefore they are primed to defend themselves against anyone that identifies with their former enemies.
Realistically gnostic atheists and gnostic theists are just different flavors of the same type of stupid. Obviously we can argue one is more likely to be correct and how we should operate because of that, but that’s covered by the atheist/theist part of the title. Anyone claiming to know something that’s inherently unprovable is either stupid or intellectually lazy
Exactly. Calling atheism a belief just like religion is absurd. That’s like if I were to say underground lizard people control the government, then branding you a non-lizard-eist for not believing me. It’s not a belief system, it’s just the logical default when no evidence is presented.
The “atheism is just another belief” talking point is popular in religious circles because it’s a little mental game they can play to try and make their lack of evidence equal to someone saying they lack evidence. They frame atheism as an assertion that no gods exist, which is therefore equal to a religious person making the assertion that their god does exist. We know that in reality, lack of belief in something (anything) is passive and the default (I’m not gonna believe that lizard people live in the sewers unless you prove it to me), but they try to frame it as an active claim because then it’s just a bunch of people claiming different things.
It’s just another form of deceit they wrap around themselves to hide from the fact that they have no actual evidence of the divine existing.
Isn’t that the whole nuance between atheism and agnostism?
Agnosticism is not some sort of ‘weak atheism’, it is a completely independent thing, you can have gnostic theists, gnostic atheists, agnostic theists and agnostic atheists. It just means that you believe something can be known about the existence of god vs. you believe nothing can be known about it.
You raise a good point. I feel like my personal issue is with gnostic atheists, who proudly trumpet that since human beings cannot prove that God exists then he must not exist and any attempt to think or act otherwise is just foolishness.
I’m much more conversationally compatible with the agnostic atheists who say we can’t know that God exists so most likely he does not.
To be fair, there are assholes in all four quadrants, and my actual beef is with the assholes who feel like they need to force their belief or their lack thereof on me.
I would feel the same way about a militant zoroastrian who expects me to convert to their religion as I would against a militant Gnostic atheist who expects me to abandon my own.
And I also understand that many atheists have been antagonized by militant Christians for not believing and so therefore they are primed to defend themselves against anyone that identifies with their former enemies.
Realistically gnostic atheists and gnostic theists are just different flavors of the same type of stupid. Obviously we can argue one is more likely to be correct and how we should operate because of that, but that’s covered by the atheist/theist part of the title. Anyone claiming to know something that’s inherently unprovable is either stupid or intellectually lazy
Thanks for the precision, I’m definitely not an expert in the topic, grew up completely religion-free.