What an utter piece of shit.
Any system capable of manipulating the outcomes of international conflict needs to become property of the government via eminent domain…especially if that system is used…especially if used by an entrepreneur operating without oversight.
Deactivating US military hardware in the middle of a conflict sounds a lot like an act of treason…
From what I understand he didn’t deactivate it… it was already deactivated and he refused to turn it on.
He had disabled starlink systems over Russian territories - in order to help Ukraine. This included Crimea. Ukraine last year wanted to do a drone-strike on Crimea, so they asked Musk to turn them on. He refused, claiming he was scared of war escalation and that he didn’t want to be involved in offensive war operations.
The way you put it is at the very least a rationale. Obviously it can be debated one way or the other, but it makes more sense than him being overtly pro-Russia. I don’t think he’s so dumb as to make it obvious.
Yeah don’t trust headlines. They create the best possible headline to make as many people as interested as possible… forget about the truth or nuance. During this same period, remember that the US didn’t want to give fighter jets or tanks to Ukraine out of fear of escalation. Musk was essentially following official US military policy.
Don’t trust billionaires to do the right thing.
I agree. No one man should have all that power.
But we’re not really talking about “what ifs” or “ideal worlds”
This is the world we have and this is what happened.
No, I’m saying billionaires should not have that power.
“As Ukrainian submarine drones strapped with explosives approached the Russian fleet, they “lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly,” Isaacson writes.”
That’s from the CNN article over this. The drones were in the middle of their approach when they got deactivated.
There’s a reason there’s weird wording in all of these articles. The reason the drones would have gotten “deactivated” as they got close to Crimea is because before they were near Crimea, they were connected to the system. Once they got close, they got disconnected since the satellites over Crimea were disabled. This is because Musk disabled Starlink over Russian territory very early on. Ukrainian officials would have been well aware before any operation. There are even sanctions in place since 2014 that Obama put in that restricts any company from doing business in Crimea.
The articles are wording it in a way that’s meant to imply that he turned something off mid-operation in an attempt to stop a specific attack. This simply isn’t the case.
I’m honestly impressed at the level of blatant twisting of the truth that’s going around on the news. Are journalists lazy? Is this just click-seeking behavior? Or is it deliberate misinformation and misdirection?
Here’s a quote from the article you linked
the Starlink service provided by his company SpaceX was never active over Crimea and that the Ukrainian government made an “emergency request” to him to turn on service.
“There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate Starlink all the way to Sevastopol,” Musk posted on X, the platform formally known as Twitter that he owns. Sevastopol is a port city in Crimea. “The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor. If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation.”
Here are some articles from 2022
https://interestingengineering.com/culture/musk-denies-blocking-starlink-crimea
SpaceX has disabled Starlink over Russian-controlled regions of Ukraine. As per Business Insider, some have suggested it may have been shut off over certain regions to prevent Russia from exploiting the network.
prompting speculation that it [starlink system] had been shut off in areas controlled by Russia — perhaps to prevent the Kremlin from exploiting the network.
https://news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-blocks-ukraine-using-174508012.html?guccounter=1
Elon Musk denied a Ukrainian request to enable the use of Starlink in Russian-occupied Crimea.
That quote is clear and to the point. He didn’t turn anything off. He refused to turn something on.
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/no-starlink-for-ukraine-elon-musk-makes-a-u-turn-turns-down/
Speaking to political analyst Ian Bremmer from the Eurasia Group, Musk said that Ukraine’s government had urged him to turn on Starlink in Crimea, which Russia invaded and forcibly occupied in 2014
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/31/elon-musk-starlink-ukraine-drone-attack-crimea/
Elon Musk ‘refuses to turn on Starlink’ for Crimea drone attack
In September Ukrainian officials told The Economist that Mr Musk had rejected a Ukrainian request to allow Starlink to be used in Crimea, a part of Ukraine which Russia invaded and annexed in 2014, … SpaceX has continued to restrict the use of Starlink in Russian-occupied territory, according to Ukrainian officials
I think Musk is scummy, but I appreciate your response here clearing things up. It makes sense why he wouldn’t re-activate it, but at least it’s not like he shut it off mid-flight. They just went out of the known range.
I still think Musk is scummy, but for other reasons.
Yeah I understand why he wouldn’t wanna get involved. Start facilitating aggressive operations and you’re all of a sudden a legitimate military target. I have doubts Russia would shoot down a SpaceX satellite… but you never know.
We generally don’t expect US companies to actively participate in wars, especially a war that the US isn’t officially involved in.
I think Musk’s decision to offer Starlink access for free to Ukraine is an interesting one. On one hand, they get a bunch of good PR for helping out a country during an aggressive invasion - we’re talking hundreds of millions they essentially donated to Ukraine. On the other hand, any good PR they got has probably been canceled out by now. Which I think is ironic - no good deed goes unpunished.
However, I don’t think Musk helped just for good PR. I think he felt it was a good opportunity to show off the capacities of his system during a globally publicized war. And it seems like it has definitely met expectations - the Ukrainians have come to rely on the system. So other countries are taking notice. China and Russia are both developing similar systems.
So yeah, I’d probably do the same thing if I were him. He’s probably just following the advice of his advisors. I think Musk is scummy too. I don’t like him for a number of reasons, the prime being that it seems he’s putting all his eggs on fascists coming to power in the US.
But this specific news cycle I think is a psyop meant to discredit Musk. Which fuck it, I don’t care really. But I like to know the truth, not propaganda. If I dislike someone, I want to dislike them for actual reasons not lies told to me by a news headline.
Honestly, it’s just that journalists want to make Elon Musk look like the bad guy. And thank you so much for taking the time to write this out so that it is far more obvious what’s happening because it’s just so confusing what they’re saying
except Musk said none of these things did he? His response seemed to be in the other direction.
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You mean Ukrainian military hardware?
A lot of the Ukrainian dishes were purchased by the US military and given to Ukraine, so they are ostensibly both
Its not military hardware
Whose government though? That’s the issue with this thinking. As a person who does not live in the US, I’m not sure I want the US to own everything that can be used in war.
It would obviously be the government of the country of origin.
Starlink was designed, built, and deployed from the United States, by SpaceX (a US company) which is owned by Elon Musk (a US citizen), and launched from US soil. Obviously all that junk and and people are subject to US governance, so when I say this specific stuff should be seized by eminent domain, I mean seized by the US Government.
Other junk in other countries built by other people of similar magnitude and ability to interfere with global conflicts would be subjected to those other governments. I wouldn’t expect the US Government to seize, under eminent domain, foreign owned stuff in other countries.
It seems like privatization is working out great for us 👍
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You’re completely missing the point. Musk actively took part in the war with this, without any oversight.
How so, by providing defensive abilities only from the get go? Sorry your pet “latest thing” Ukraine didn’t get to use American infrastructure to kill and do your bidding.
Elon is not the president, a leader, the military, nor a government. This parasite should be in a prison or a brig at the very least. This is fucking treason.
I’ve heard this a bit. Treason is a crime against your own country, no? How is this treason?
He’s twarthing the war effort of a country the US is supporting. I don’t know if he broke any laws but he’s defenitely on the government’s shitlist now.
he’s definitely on the government’s shitlist now
A billionaire who donates shitloads to both of the corporations masquerading as political parties? On the US government’s shitlist? Oh you sweet summer child…
Please head on back to reddit with that “sweet summer child” bullshit
Reddit doesn’t own GOT memes. Please head on back to anywhere other people aren’t with your “I decide what memes are allowed on Lemmy” bullshit.
Go cry on reddit about it
You go, I like it here when not having to deal with pompous gatekeepers like yourself 🤷
It’s not. His actions can be deplorable without actually being illegal. The Lemmy Bar Association is about as legally competent as my cat.
So if during the occupation of Afghanistan, I fought for the Taliban but only killed Afghan Army soldiers, I could return to the USA without any worries?
Giving comfort to the enemy has a name, what is it again?
US is not at war with Russia so it is not treason.
Jeez, people in this thread are hysterical.
St Helena.
“Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”
Yes my satellite that is actively being used in a war should be designed only for Netflix and chill.
Exactly. This rule should have made clear from the start (instead of gifting Ukraine access to Starlink at the beginning of the conflict), not taken back later on - and silently, too, with a high cost for the Ukrainian army.
Musk / Starlink is absolutely in the wrong here. But since we’re seeing Musk stray further and further from grace, is this surprising?
Wait till yall find out about Henry Ford and the banana companies
Well, it explains why today’s Banana Republicans loves them some Elmo.
It’s a republic goddammit! /s
If they could read they would be furious
File this under war crimes, charge him, and throw away the key.
If he’s not careful the US will simply nationalize SpaceX. It’s not going to happen in the next couple of years, but this kind of shit will cause it to happen eventually.
He’d probably love that, gives him more reasons to complain about the left on Twitter.
The reason Space X had suck an easy start was lack of competition in the launch business.
Boeing and Lockheed had so fucked up a competition for launch vehicles, the only way to avoid eternal lawsuirlts was to form United Launch Allliance, initially a 50/50 ownership split between the only 2 launch providers.
The military and alphabet agencies want to buy launches not build big rockets. ICBMs being the exception.
Maybe in your commie mind. But not in the real world. Not in the US.
We have nationalized utility companies in the past. In fact we even did a satellite data network.
Wasn’t Ukraine paying for internet usage as well? So it’s a breach of contract as well.
Putin probably paid more.
Fucking charge him with something. This is insane… If it’s not treason, it sure as hell is undermining the billions of dollars in aid were sending Ukraine. We’ve sent 76 billion dollars so far.
Stop trying to tell a private citizen and businessman what he can and can’t do with his own business
He got to where he is with government funding.
Turn off the tap. Now.
First of all he got there by being the best businessman in the world, lots a hard work and plucky stick-to-it-ive-ness plus a keen eye for innovation. Think about this. If he hadn’t used his space satellites to stop the Ukies, Putin could have launched the Nukies! Basically he saved the planet and this is the thanks you give him. No good deed goes unpunished
The troll account is annoying when you’re crowding out other discussion.
I’m the only one bringing common sense to these discussions at all
This parody tankie account is too close to the real thing to work. Leave some room for satire, broskie.
I don’t know what that is
lmao
He got where he is off the back of slavery in an emerald mine his father runs you twat
When you have a contract with the federal government it comes with stipulations. Don’t “private citizen” this. It’s not a mom and pop store.
But Starlink DIDN’T have a contract with the US government, DOD, or Ukraine government. That’s the point. And they went ahead and used it for guided munitions.
Which is a violation of the terms of service and not what anyone at SpaceX had intended.
Problem is, that’s exactly how they ended up being used!
Why? I think capitalism’s a toxic system and he has no moral right to his wealth.
Where do you draw the line? Should he also be allowed to sell his services to Russia? Should private companies from the US be allowed to sell arms to Russia?
The whole reason this happened is because he disabled Starlink satellites over Russia in order to help the Ukrainian war effort. He just refused to turn it on for a specific offensive operation in Crimea that Ukraine requested - claiming he wanted to avoid escalation. Him and the US government were in agreement during time. Remember the US did not want to give tanks and planes because of fear of escalation.
I don’t mean to try and put a damper on the 5 minute hate session but I wish people would make an effort to try and understand what is happening before they make all sorts of wild conclusions and statements.
Never mind that. Let’s suppose he can sell his services to whomever he likes.
What about the privacy implications? How did he know that specific attack was planned? Can he just listen in on any communication going across Starlink? I don’t think anyone should be okay with that.
How did he know that specific attack was planned?
Ukraine asked him to extend Starlink coverage for the attack.
No conspiracy theory needed, they just told him.
Since he runs Starlink, he has a map of where every single Starlink receiver is located. Literally, a real time map with GPS coordinates.
Russia would kill to have that info.
However, musk also hack and jam proofed Starlink to help Ukraine too.
Of course. That’s called capitalism and the free market. Don’t like it? Move to Venezuela
Nah, I’d rather attack the cancer that is capitalism at the source and work to rid the world of its scourge once and for all. Sorry you chose the loser’s side.
“Citizen” is the critical word here
“Ukraine” telling a “US citizen” what to do, are the critical words here.
Hes a US Citizen undermining the US Government
Is he? Did the US Government issue an order to attack Russian assets? Even Russian assets on Ukrainian soil? Even to support any Ukrainian effort to attack Russian assets?
So far it’s been a “we give Ukraine some stuff and intel, and let them do the fighting while keeping a semblance of plausible deniability”.
Sounds more like a direct involvement in the attack, would’ve been undermining the US Government.
Exactly, you can’t have your cake and eat it - if we want to live in a sane and moral world we shouldn’t let private citizens own things that are important, especially not satellite infrastructure
I mean if a person does anything directly affecting a war (for any side) I’d say that person is a wartime volunteer.
Wartime volunteers that have taken up arms are a absolutely viable target for military strikes.
Just saying 🤷♂️
So the US government is a viable target?
Always has been
Secretly posted on Twitter that he did this because who is going to hold him accountable?
But the truly galaxy brain move is in this article:
After CNN’s reporting, Musk reversed course, tweeting “the hell with it … we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free.”
Gwynne Shotwell, Musk’s president at SpaceX, was livid at Musk’s reversal, according to Isaacson.
“The Pentagon had a $145 million check ready to hand to me, literally,” Isaacson quotes Shotwell as saying. “Then Elon succumbed to the bullshit on Twitter and to the haters at the Pentagon who leaked the story.”
Eh, he got another 100,000 subscribers out of it.
Musk is a war criminal. This is a crime against humanity.
It’s neither of those things. Words have meanings, and legal terms have very specific meanings.
Hey look a rational person.
Get a stick and kill it!
Legally though, does he still qualify as a piece of shit? Cause he is a piece of shit.
Guilty as charged
It is neither of those things, but he may be subject to an act of retorsion, which isn’t bound by the rule of “proportionate response,” from both the government of the US, and the government of Ukraine. I don’t expect that to happen, but that’s what would happen to any of us doing something like that.
Musk is treasonous war criminal.
“Papa puta is happy with muskreek. Papa puta promised not to press death button, muskreek is hero! Why people angry with muskreek papa puta?” - The best model science can build of musk’s current thought process
If true, my respect for Musk just dropped a … well, none at all. It would be totally in character.
