It was really annoying back when I was a rightist but it’s even more frustrating now that I am a Marxist-Leninist that so-called “leftists” denounce pretty much every single successful socialist experience in history.
I’ll bite. What successful socialist experiences are being denounced?
Western leftists often denounce all of them (Cuba, the DPRK, China, Vietnam, Laos, and the historical experiments), as well as the non-Marxist attempts at socialism like in Venezuela, despite never having achieved anything remotely close to socialism in their own countries
I see that Russia isn’t on your list, is it a socialist state or something else?
Depends on what you mean by Russia. If you mean the Soviet Union, then yes, they were most definitely socialist, even though revisionists would later take over and steer it towards the path of complete capitalist restoration.
If you mean modern Russia, then no, they are not socialist, they are capitalist. They have more state-owned industries than normal capitalist societies and oppose the West, but that’s like saying Iran is socialist because the exact same description I just mentioned fits them as well. Just because the Russian government sometimes says good things about the Soviet Union doesn’t make them socialist or wannabe socialist either, they are just trying to win over the many Russians who are nostalgic for the Soviet era. The Russian government is very much anti-socialist.
Thank you for the explanation. I’ve seen a lot of support for Russia, so I thought you guys thought they were socialists. I’m still learning about all this, I’m quite new to being on the left.
so I thought you guys thought they were socialists. I’m still learning about all this, I’m quite new to being on the left.
I encourage you to read about the concept of critical support; you can have fundamental disagreements with somebody that you support in a particular aspect. Things do not have to binary 100% support/oppose.
Most of us understand a lot of the underlying reasons Russia is in the conflict that they are in. We also recognize that we have a mutual enemy in NATO. While at a glance that may look like we really support Russia right now, that is mostly because we don’t have the same kneejerk reaction against them in the current political climate. It does not mean we support Russia blindly or that we think they are socialist nation. They aren’t even a particular ally to socialism, but we can still support them when our interests align.
There are some people who think that because the USSR was socialist (true) that so is modern Russia, but that is generally a liberal point of view.
I’d argue that for several of the “experiences” on this list that success really depends on who you are and they aren’t or weren’t so great for everyone. And, certainly they all have socialist policies, but similar how it would be inaccurate to define the US as entirely capitalist, socialism isn’t the only defining characteristic. China, for instance, is more strongly characterized by its fascism.
And the DPRK? By what measurement is this considered successful?
That said, I’m certainly not intimately familiar with all of them, and if socialism didn’t have positive successes in the world I wouldn’t support it.
And the DPRK? By what measurement is this considered successful?
Idk, I’m pretty sure something pretty major happened ~70 years ago? I can’t really remember though…
Just kidding I’m not a liberal who forgets history if the media isn’t shoveling its interpretation of it into my mouth, the DPRK was bombed into the fucking stone age, and didn’t have the United States to pump billions and billions of dollars to rebuild itself, just some help from the USSR and China who couldn’t afford to pump anywhere near the amount of capital into their economy like the US could into Japan and SK, so considering all that I think they’ve been quite successful for their material conditions
I haven’t been since the pandemic, and I know it hit them pretty hard, but it was a much nicer place than a lot of liberals think it is. They are always opening new housing projects that are actually REALLY nice. Wide variety of food and services, as long as you don’t care about having specific brand names on everything you consume. The best part was definitely that people actually had time to live.
I lived in SK (about one year) and the DPRK (aobut three months) thanks to my grad school research, and I can say that I would much prefer to live in the DPRK than SK again. SK is an absolute unchecked exploitative capitalist hellscape, I am not sure there is a country on earth with worse work-life balance. I live in Japan and SK makes us look like a workers paradise.
Wow that’s pretty cool! I’d love to visit the DPRK one day but it’s literally illegal for me as an American :/
Maybe it will be possible again, it wasn’t too long ago Americans could still go. Would be happy to answer any questions you had then, though my trip wasn’t the normal tourism one so probably a bit different.
Oh I’d love to hear about your experience! I imagine since you had such an extended stay, you didn’t have any kind of chaperone with you?
Dislikes already coming I see. The libs must have spotted this post already.
it seems like this community ends up on “All” fairly frequently, we might need some new mods @felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml
What could mods do?
