The indictment alleges that from tax years 2016 through 2019, Hunter Biden didn’t pay at least $1.4 million in self-assessed federal taxes, and that he filed false returns for tax year 2018 in order to evade the assessment of taxes. The indictment alleges that the president’s son “subverted the payroll and tax withholding process of his own company by withdrawing millions outside of the payroll and tax withholding process; spent millions of dollars on an extravagant lifestyle rather than paying his tax bills; in 2018, stopped paying his outstanding and overdue taxes for tax year 2015; willfully failed to pay his 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 taxes on time, despite having access to funds to pay some or all of these taxes; willfully failed to file his 2017 and 2018 tax returns, on time; and when he did finally file his 2018 returns, included false business deductions in order to reduce the very substantial tax liability he faced as of February 2020.”
You asked “what is the real issue with Hunter’s behavior?”, making it sound like he never committed any crime, so I listed some of the crimes he allegedly committed. Not paying or not filing taxes are technically crimes, yes. They’re rarely prosecuted though. If you owe some money, you’re probably fine, especially if you’re in communication with the IRS. If you’re falsifying your deductions and you owe millions to the IRS and are years behind on your filings you may be in trouble, yes, and they may tack on charges for money you didn’t pay or years you filed late once they’re annoyed at you.
Like I say, I’m not interested in whataboutism about Matt Gaetz in order to downplay anything Biden did. Firearms violations and tax charges are not the worst thing in the world, no. In comparison with what Jeffrey Dahmer did, what Matt Gaetz did wasn’t that bad. Neither comparison is relevant. Just charge the people with what they committed, whether it’s white-collar crime or predatory sex or serial murder. Which yes, means I think Matt Gaetz should have gotten charges. That doesn’t mean, though, that I want to try to pretend Hunter Biden didn’t do anything (or allegedly do anything; he still has his day in court to defend himself from the allegations.)
Because I’m not debating his behavior I’m debating it’s worth as a scandal. Whatabout all you need. You’re still focused on a white guy who owes taxes. Why that is a big deal is up to you.
Is it a big deal to me? 0%. I don’t give a shit what happens to Hunter Biden. The only reason I care about this story at all is that it’s nice to see well-connected white collar criminals getting charges for once. If you’d replied to me asking how much this is worth as a scandal, or pointing out that what Matt Gaetz did was worse, then we could have had a nice agreeable conversation about yeah I agree with you on that. Instead you told me that he did “not really anything unlawful,” and that’s how we started talking.
I mean do you feel the same way about Trump’s trial for business fraud in New York? If someone said that in that venue he’s just guilty of being privileged and well off, not really anything unlawful, how would you feel about that?
I mean he’s not been convicted of anything yet. Only accused of rather common concerns of taxes owed. Nothing close to decades of fraud like trump. Yet it’s only in the headlines because republicans are desperate. I just don’t see Biden’s son being the white collar sacrificial lamb that matters.
Again why the “scandal”? At most his big unlawful behavior is a matter of owing money that can be paid. Meanwhile Jan 6… but yea everyone should be held to follow the law. So back taxes is where we draw the line?
I actually agree with you on the vast majority of what you’re saying. In particular, how Trump’s crimes are a grave threat to democracy in the US, whereas the allegations about Hunter Biden are basically harmless in the grand scheme of things (although, you didn’t answer my question on whether Trump’s New York business crimes are also basically harmless in your eyes.) And, I agree that at least to some degree Hunter Biden is being prosecuted specifically because of the Republicans wanting to weaponize law enforcement against their enemies.
But it sounds to me like you’re wanting to go further than that, into using that all as a reason to make the factually untrue claim that Hunter isn’t actually being accused of anything criminal (which, all the allegations could be false, but it’s hard for me to see the DOJ under Biden claiming that he didn’t file taxes for some year when he actually did, or otherwise go into the realm of the trivially disprovable just to harass him). And then when I list specific crimes, you start saying that allegations of those crimes are no big deal, because look at the Republicans!
Which is, of course, what the Republicans tend to do when their crimes are pointed out. In my opinion it’s crooked and dishonest when they use that whataboutism, which is why I don’t want to do the same for “my side”. More to the point, Hunter Biden isn’t “my side.” Neither is Jared Kushner. They’re both just mostly-private individuals who may or may not have done something wrong, and if they did something criminal and it can be proved in court, then they should be convicted. Why does it need to be more complicated than that? Why should anything on the Republican side mean that Hunter Biden gets a pass?
I feel like we’re going in circles a little bit so we may have to agree to disagree. But that’s how I see it, at least.
I agree. And I’m not trying excuse anything Hunter is involved with. Just saying you and I could get accused of tax issues. They got Marcus Garvey on Mail Fraud. If republicans want a scandal they could just as easily point one your ways based on “taxes.“ Regardless it’s not really a scandal.
I never said it was unlawful. I said it wasn’t equivalent. Kinda like comparing Hunter to say trumps kids who were denied access to top secret info but then trump reversed that.children who were even employed at the White House despite any real qualifications.
The better comparison would be if Hillary Clinton employed Chelsey but that never happened so here we are talking about Hunter for no real reason. Other folks have tax problems but suddenly Hunter is an issue.
You literally said he didn’t do anything unlawful. Also, that’s the only thing I commented on. Everything you’re saying about false equivalencies is just you talking to yourself.
"EXCEPT, what is the real issue with Hunter’s behavior?
Best I’ve been able to tell Hunter is guilty of being privileged and well off. Not really anything unlawful."
Because best I can tell that’s the case. He’s not convicted of anything and all we’re talking about is republican talking points of how “corrupt” Hunter is based on accusations. This whole conversation is centered on republican talking points and at worst it means Hunter owes the IRS no diff than any of us. Meanwhile trump is facing over 40 indictments. His kids were given jobs in the White House and access to top secret info. But Hunter owes taxes so stop the presses?
I’m not saying he gets a pass but what this is is kinda laughable compared to the real concerns of democracy’s lifespan.
You’re just all over the place with the legality aspect. Just make up your mind what you’re trying to say.
I think everyone here agrees with you on the rest. I don’t really care if he gets prison time, but whatever is dealt to him should be done to any other rich asshole (Trump) trying to do the exact same thing. And if he’s held accountable for this, others like Gaetz should 100% be held accountable.
I think the issue here is concern of scandal rather than punishment by virtue of legality.
It sounds like we all agree on the legality. I’m more commenting on the “scandal” and it’s just not there. It’s not even a thing that should hit radar compared to everything else. Never giving him a pass, more that it feels like giving everyone else a pass by focusing on Hunter of all folks.
EXCEPT, what is the real issue with Hunter’s behavior?
Best I’ve been able to tell Hunter is guilty of being privileged and well off. Not really anything unlawful.
Meanwhile Gaetz supposedly trafficked a minor and paid said minor via Venmo.
Sorry I just don’t see the equivalence.
What?
That’s according to NPR.
Is that worse than paying a minor for sex? Honestly, I don’t care; they’re both crimes, so charge both of them.
Yea man Lauren Hill is just as bad as trafficking minors and being able to pay back owed taxes is just like that.
Just curious if I owe taxes too am I just like Gaetz?
Again: What?
You asked “what is the real issue with Hunter’s behavior?”, making it sound like he never committed any crime, so I listed some of the crimes he allegedly committed. Not paying or not filing taxes are technically crimes, yes. They’re rarely prosecuted though. If you owe some money, you’re probably fine, especially if you’re in communication with the IRS. If you’re falsifying your deductions and you owe millions to the IRS and are years behind on your filings you may be in trouble, yes, and they may tack on charges for money you didn’t pay or years you filed late once they’re annoyed at you.
Like I say, I’m not interested in whataboutism about Matt Gaetz in order to downplay anything Biden did. Firearms violations and tax charges are not the worst thing in the world, no. In comparison with what Jeffrey Dahmer did, what Matt Gaetz did wasn’t that bad. Neither comparison is relevant. Just charge the people with what they committed, whether it’s white-collar crime or predatory sex or serial murder. Which yes, means I think Matt Gaetz should have gotten charges. That doesn’t mean, though, that I want to try to pretend Hunter Biden didn’t do anything (or allegedly do anything; he still has his day in court to defend himself from the allegations.)
Because I’m not debating his behavior I’m debating it’s worth as a scandal. Whatabout all you need. You’re still focused on a white guy who owes taxes. Why that is a big deal is up to you.
Is it a big deal to me? 0%. I don’t give a shit what happens to Hunter Biden. The only reason I care about this story at all is that it’s nice to see well-connected white collar criminals getting charges for once. If you’d replied to me asking how much this is worth as a scandal, or pointing out that what Matt Gaetz did was worse, then we could have had a nice agreeable conversation about yeah I agree with you on that. Instead you told me that he did “not really anything unlawful,” and that’s how we started talking.
I mean do you feel the same way about Trump’s trial for business fraud in New York? If someone said that in that venue he’s just guilty of being privileged and well off, not really anything unlawful, how would you feel about that?
I mean he’s not been convicted of anything yet. Only accused of rather common concerns of taxes owed. Nothing close to decades of fraud like trump. Yet it’s only in the headlines because republicans are desperate. I just don’t see Biden’s son being the white collar sacrificial lamb that matters.
Again why the “scandal”? At most his big unlawful behavior is a matter of owing money that can be paid. Meanwhile Jan 6… but yea everyone should be held to follow the law. So back taxes is where we draw the line?
I think you forgot illegally purchasing and possessing a firearm.
Cool, so the same shit that a second amendment right erases? Any reasons why republicans are so concerned?
I actually agree with you on the vast majority of what you’re saying. In particular, how Trump’s crimes are a grave threat to democracy in the US, whereas the allegations about Hunter Biden are basically harmless in the grand scheme of things (although, you didn’t answer my question on whether Trump’s New York business crimes are also basically harmless in your eyes.) And, I agree that at least to some degree Hunter Biden is being prosecuted specifically because of the Republicans wanting to weaponize law enforcement against their enemies.
But it sounds to me like you’re wanting to go further than that, into using that all as a reason to make the factually untrue claim that Hunter isn’t actually being accused of anything criminal (which, all the allegations could be false, but it’s hard for me to see the DOJ under Biden claiming that he didn’t file taxes for some year when he actually did, or otherwise go into the realm of the trivially disprovable just to harass him). And then when I list specific crimes, you start saying that allegations of those crimes are no big deal, because look at the Republicans!
Which is, of course, what the Republicans tend to do when their crimes are pointed out. In my opinion it’s crooked and dishonest when they use that whataboutism, which is why I don’t want to do the same for “my side”. More to the point, Hunter Biden isn’t “my side.” Neither is Jared Kushner. They’re both just mostly-private individuals who may or may not have done something wrong, and if they did something criminal and it can be proved in court, then they should be convicted. Why does it need to be more complicated than that? Why should anything on the Republican side mean that Hunter Biden gets a pass?
I feel like we’re going in circles a little bit so we may have to agree to disagree. But that’s how I see it, at least.
I agree. And I’m not trying excuse anything Hunter is involved with. Just saying you and I could get accused of tax issues. They got Marcus Garvey on Mail Fraud. If republicans want a scandal they could just as easily point one your ways based on “taxes.“ Regardless it’s not really a scandal.
They were drawing comparisons as to the process, not the substance or severity of the crimes.
Isn’t it tax and child support evasion? Pretty vanilla, but it occasionally lands prison time.
Right so we’re talking about paying taxes. The same thing rich folks have shrugged off for decades. So he’s Wesley Snipes?
Not trying to excuse it but is that up there with trafficking minors?
Yeah, Wesley Snipes is exactly who I was thinking of.
I don’t think it’s up there with trafficking minors, I didn’t say it was. You said it was nothing unlawful, which isn’t true.
I never said it was unlawful. I said it wasn’t equivalent. Kinda like comparing Hunter to say trumps kids who were denied access to top secret info but then trump reversed that.children who were even employed at the White House despite any real qualifications.
The better comparison would be if Hillary Clinton employed Chelsey but that never happened so here we are talking about Hunter for no real reason. Other folks have tax problems but suddenly Hunter is an issue.
You literally said he didn’t do anything unlawful. Also, that’s the only thing I commented on. Everything you’re saying about false equivalencies is just you talking to yourself.
"EXCEPT, what is the real issue with Hunter’s behavior?
Best I’ve been able to tell Hunter is guilty of being privileged and well off. Not really anything unlawful."
Because best I can tell that’s the case. He’s not convicted of anything and all we’re talking about is republican talking points of how “corrupt” Hunter is based on accusations. This whole conversation is centered on republican talking points and at worst it means Hunter owes the IRS no diff than any of us. Meanwhile trump is facing over 40 indictments. His kids were given jobs in the White House and access to top secret info. But Hunter owes taxes so stop the presses?
I’m not saying he gets a pass but what this is is kinda laughable compared to the real concerns of democracy’s lifespan.
You’re just all over the place with the legality aspect. Just make up your mind what you’re trying to say.
I think everyone here agrees with you on the rest. I don’t really care if he gets prison time, but whatever is dealt to him should be done to any other rich asshole (Trump) trying to do the exact same thing. And if he’s held accountable for this, others like Gaetz should 100% be held accountable.
I think the issue here is concern of scandal rather than punishment by virtue of legality.
It sounds like we all agree on the legality. I’m more commenting on the “scandal” and it’s just not there. It’s not even a thing that should hit radar compared to everything else. Never giving him a pass, more that it feels like giving everyone else a pass by focusing on Hunter of all folks.