2 years imprisonment for burning any religious text? That’s insane
There was an AMA on reddit some time ago with a guy who had been convicted for embezzlement. His imprisonment consisted of effectively living in the prison but otherwise being allowed to leave during the day, go to work, etc. That’s probably the kind of imprisonment you can expect. I’m not saying that’s not bad. I’m just saying, it’s not as bad as you might think. I tried googling it but I can’t find it.
Personally, I disagree with the decision but do understand it. The government just doesn’t want more conflict between people, and it doesn’t care how it gets it. It makes sense ‘mechanically’, but I think it’s a significant blow to freedom of expression. It also adds to the list of reasons why people will vote more right wing in the future, which sucks.
Yep. The answer to the paradox of tolerance is absolutely NOT to capitulate to the intolerant.
Pissing on religious text would still be an option lmao
Edit: nvm I read the article, how lame lol
Damn, there goes using bible paper for joints (aka holy smokes)
Tolerance is not a moral requirement but a social contract.
By social contract I mean it’s an agreement that I will tolerate you as long as you tolerate me.
Islamic groups literally want some sections of western society dead (queer community etc) and other sections subjugated (women). They violate the contract and we shouldn’t be accepting of that.
tldr: We shouldn’t pander to people who think a book burning means someone should die.
Not all Muslims are like that though. Most are very level headed and tolerant of others and their religions too. If all Muslims were how you described, with how many there are in the world there would be literal chaos every day.
Level headed people shouldn’t be out of their mind because some nutjob burns a book. Pretty sure people who are like you write aren’t keen on getting blasphemy laws back.
You described the fanatical extremists that are not the majority of that religion. I also don’t know what you’re trying to get at with that last part. I just think people are too quick to lump everyone in one bag that doesn’t fully represent them just because it does for a few of them.
There are absolute heinous people who could be demographically similar to me as well I imagine, I don’t want to be lumped in with them. Just like how a lot of Muslims around the world will think that too.
Banning the burning or “desecration” of a specific genre of books because it rallies the feelings of highly religious people is pandering to the views of the religious extremists. That is my point.
People who are level headed about their religion won’t demand that a state forbids to burn a book. And they won’t get worked up by it to the point they think this is something that should be handled on a state level.
I have more of an issue that the people burning are doing it themselves to try and incite something. I couldn’t care less to be honest that it’s about religious stuff or of a specific religion. It goes both ways, just don’t be pricks towards other people and none of that eye for an eye shit either.
Doesn’t really matter what the motivation is. Burning a book does not justify violence in response. You can have pure wonderful motivations or fuck awful ones neither would change what was done.
I don’t disagree
Sure, but I have received a few messages from Muslims–and only Muslims–threatening to overtake Western civilization so that I’ll be put in my place. I don’t know of any other group that does that.
Right, but you didn’t receive an email from every Muslim in the entire world. And I could think of a few Christian nutjobs that go crazy, like how a lot are against gay people and send them to camps to stop them from being gay.
My overall point doesn’t require that every single Muslim do that. If a small fraction of them are making these threats, it hints at an underlying belief system and related attitudes of an agenda against the West.
What does the Quran say they are supposed to do to apostates?
There is literal chaos every day.
Completely agree. I’ve lived in Malaysia and they’re pretty chilled there. Some places though Islam gets pretty full on. Check out Islamabad or Tehran sometime - yikes. Nothing like a crowd of people chanting, ‘Death to the west!’ and flaying themselves bloody while doing it realise Islam ramps up. Less and less moderate Muslims it seems these days
Protesting against those who impede on your right to self-determination and your right to trade freely with the rest of the world is completely understandable. Especially when the entity enforcing the sanctions and making threatening statements conversely makes so much noise about “liberal” values - the right to free trade, democracy etc.
Bad and basic take.
You’re welcome to elaborate? I feel I speak not from prejudice but from experience having lived and travelled widely in the Muslim world.
Say you have a bunch of Nazi grizzly bears living outside and around your village.
They don’t do fuck all to the people of your village. In fact, some are actually coming through the village sometimes, but they don’t hurt anyone. They’re just Nazi fucks. But they enjoy your village and they sometimes fertilize your parks.
Then someone says, these fucking grizzly bears are Nazis, goddammit, imma burn piles of “Mein Kampf” as a protest!
So they do, and all the grizzly bears get provoked, enter the village, and start attacking all the people.
Now, there’s a whole bunch of people on both sides of this theoretical situation who will say this is black and white and in their favor – how dare they burn our holy book! How dare they say we can’t burn whatever we like in our own village!
But it’s not black and white. It’s gray af. It’s freaking
#777.If you don’t provoke them, there’s no problem in the village. Sometimes it’s enough knowing you have the right to do something, and too much to actually do it, because actually doing it creates a whole fucking heap of problems to your fellow villager, whereas not doing it would spare them these problems.
With great power comes great responsibility. Same thing with great freedoms. We have a bunch of freedoms. Let’s not be stupid with them, lest they be taken away.
Word salad
I knew a lot of people can’t comprehend this situation fully, but I will keep saying it until at least someone with some IQ gets it.
IQ tests are pseudoscience
Intelligence, then.
Accurate and good take.
Nah.
Well argued
Same.
¯\_ಠ_ಠ_/¯
stupid misleading headline! The bill covers not only the quran but the public burning of all books with importance for religious groups.
The law criminalizes the “inappropriate treatment of writings with significant importance for a recognized religious community.”
Great, it’s still a stupid and insane law. Prohibit ALL public burnings of books? Ok I think it’s stupid, but whatever. But only protect those with religious significance? This is just an awful precedence.
Religions don’t deserve respect, because they don’t respect others. Nevermind the fact that they are essentially fables and folklore told by adults.
Prohibit ALL public burnings of books? Ok I think it’s stupid, but whatever.
I’m OK with prohibited public burnings for the purpose of fire safety, I guess. Beyond that, I don’t think I’d want to limit free speech in this manner.
Exactly it’s dumb, but restricting it just to religious texts is even dumber.
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That’s really a sad moment in history. Sure, it’s really in bad taste if ones does it, but it’s your property and it’s just paper at the end of day.
They might as well start drawing the prophet Muhammad, it’s probably cheaper too.
I am making this clear. This is a drawing of Mohammed, the founder of Islam in the 7th century.
a-little-too-well-regarded, pathologically lying pedophile.
“Hey bro, you like virgins?”
Based
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This feels weird to me. Book bans I’m wholly against. But also throwing people in jail for burning paper seems strange as well. Like, I’m queer as hell and used to be religious. But if you want to wrap a Bible in a rainbow flag and burn it, then whatever. Waste of resources. But throwing people in prison over something some fraction of any population believes in (without violence, racism or hatespeech) seems excessive and favors religion.
Violence, hatespeech, racism, banning books, obviously all bets are off. I just wish everyone could dial back everything about 10 notches.
As a German any burning of books feels weird to me. Especially when done by racists to show how much they hate minorities
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Appeasement for skydaddy followers is definitely going to workout
According to the law, you can’t wrap a Bible in a rainbow flag and burn it either. ‘The law criminalizes the “inappropriate treatment of writings with significant importance for a recognized religious community.”’
Over on YouTube, thunderfoot did a fun thought experiment. He filled a hard disk full of copies of the Quran and then proceeded to zero over all of them. Is destroying thousands of digital copies of the Quran equivalent to burning them?
First western nation to fall due to demands from terrorist. Ask and they shall receive I guess.
This will be the first text in some insane dominos memes in the future.
Meme government.
Western nations give into terrorist demands going back to the French revolution. Some of those demands were for the freedom of speech that is being trampled on here or other rights and protections we hold dear. For recent examples look at the troubles or even that guy who shot shinzo abe and got the moonies out of Japan.
The focus shouldn’t just be on the means for political change, though the means can be criticized, but the political change itself. Banning book burnings in this case is an afront to free speech and should not be implemented.
Oh yeah totally. If we can’t burn religious text for the express purpose of passing people off, then the whole society is doomed snd were one slippery slope away from all the nordjnc countries having sharia law. I doubt the country will survive until Christmas honestly.
Its almost as bad as Germany banning nazi salutes.
Slippery slope fallacy
Yeah no shit sherlok, that’s point.
Brilliant argument
Sorry don’t have time to explain sarcasm to you. I know yanks struggle with the concept.
Sardonic I believe, not sarcastic. The trick is which way you are exaggerating. Exaggerating true vs exaggerating false.
Please provide a citation that nationality and grasp of sarcasm are intertwined. As you made the claim.
I don’t understand the replies here - this bill was drafted in response to multiple events where ethno-nationalists burned the Qur’an in front of audiences with the implicit intent to incite violence against Denmark’s Muslim minority population. If you read the article, the bill bans the only the public burning of any religious book, not just the Qur’an. This bill would not “limit freedom of speech,” it would limit a form of hate speech and arguably stochastic terrorism being employed by the far right in Denmark. I do not see a problem with this bill.
I agree. It’s for the security of their democracy. Funny thing a Muslim was allowed to burn a Torah and a Holy Bible and those same people were upset. Tit for tat, now it’s against the law.
Infringing rights to protect rights makes as much sense as fucking for virginity
Hate speech is a form of speech. It is a vile form but it is a form. Ideas that are noble and gentle don’t need to be protected, ideas that are offensive do.
I am very sorry that the leaders of Denmark are willing to give up their right of freedom of speech of their population for so little. I wonder what rights they will give up next as part of their appeasement.
Very terminally online American comment.
You can personally attack me but that won’t make them not cowards.
And you can whine on lemmy about a countries policy that has nothing to do with you, but it’s not going to change anything.
Wasn’t aware that you can’t have an opinion based on your nationality
Oh you can have an opinion, just no one is required to take you seriously
Don’t see where I said otherwise. You have an opinion that I have no right to insult skydaddy and I have an opinion that both of us do. One of us has an opinion that freedom to speak your views is important and the other one does not.
I mean if you read my comments you would no I still support your right to insult “skydaddy” you’ve taken the fact I disagree with you and extrapolated that mean I think the complete opposite of you on anything.
Imo, burning books is not “speech” so there is no loss of freedom of speech here. Much like how banning people from burning crosses outside black people’s houses or doing the nazi salute to Jewish people is not violating free speech.
I personally believe that no discrimination against people based on religion, race, color of skin is appropriate. So I believe that any islamophobic symbol is incorrect.
However, same rule applies to the other side. No islamic minorities should show symbols which could be disrespectful towards different people.
I don’t see how someone burning a copy of a book that they paid for themselves is discrimination. It is criticism and protest, but not discriminatory. It isn’t denying anyone else’s access to the words in the book. It’s just making a political statement.
Ideas should always be allowed to be criticized. Inanimate objects shouldn’t be given human rights.
So the general issue why burning such a copy should be considered incorrect is the fact that Quran, apart from being just another book, is a symbol of Islamic religion. Hence why it appears offensive to Muslims. Same logic applies to other symbols. Do you think it’s absolutely okay to come to a square and burn LGBTI or BLM flags. If you were a gay and saw someone else burning a rainbow flag, would you feel safe at such place?
I will always support someone’s right to burn an inanimate object that they own themselves. I would think that person is an asshole, but would not feel threatened by it in anyway. I am what those BLM flag burners would consider a POC.
You’re bing purposefully obtuse. This does not stop criticism of Islam or the Quaran, or making political statements about Islam.
It is banning an act that has been very specifically used with the intent of inciting hatred.
You are BEING cowardly.
Oh no, some neckbeard American called me a coward. However will I cope 🤣
Personal attack last refuge of someone without an argument
Yeah I totally agree. You would have to have no actual argument to resort to calling someone a coward for not being a freeze peach fetishist.
I accurately described cowardly actions as cowardly.
You don’t understand because you’re not Islamic.
I am an aethist who was raised in an Islamic family, so I think I understand better than most.
As you admit, youre not Islamic
As you lied you are not an atheist
Why do you even bother discussing things with people if you’re just going to make up what you think they believe?
I would not necessarily say it’s because people don’t understand Muslims. I myself have nothing in common with Muslims, as well.
More likely the case is that there are 2 approaches to free speech. First one advocates for absolute free speech whilst the second is more aligned with “my liberty ends where yours begins” phrase.
I agree with you that we can contrast absolute free speech with a view that considers the effects we have on others. I’m all for the latter approach while I find the former infantile. I do still believe that not being islamic is an issue here. I don’t tell Christians how to feel about their faith because I am not one. I expect others to extend the same consideration to Muslims.
I personally believe that no discrimination against people based on religion, race, color of skin is appropriate
One of these things is not like the other ones. People choose their religion, or at very least the indoctrinated choose to stay in it. People don’t choose their race or color.
It is absolutely legitimate to discriminate against people because of absurd ideas they hold. If an adult told me they literally believed in Santa Claus, or that the skull God needs skulls for the skull throne, I might think less of them.
As distasteful as it is, this falls squarely within the paradox of tolerance. There is no reason to burn the quran other than to stick it to “those” people. It’s trolling, it’s intolerant, it does not promote social peace, it does not even promote any kind of dialogue on religious bigotry, it’s just an act of hatred, a fuck you. And the sovereign Danish parliament decided that in their country, the value of this particular fuck you is not worth the disturbance to the peace. They have decided to not tolerate this particular kind of intolerance. Disagree with them all you like, but I see a rationale and it’s far from pointless. “Free speech absolutism” might be an American foundational value but that simply is not the case in the rest of the world. And a democracy, like Denmark, may legitimately decide to resolve the paradox in this way at this point in their history, and they are perfectly free to reverse this down the line. They chose to limit one freedom, that frankly is mostly used in a petulant, childish and intolerant way, in the interest of peace. Good on them.
Then they should ban burning the bible, vedic texts, etc. (I can get you a list if you want) too…
Read the article, they did:
Burning, tearing, or defiling religious texts in public could land people with a fine or up to two years behind bars. Destroying a holy text on video and disseminating the footage online could also put offenders in jail.
Eh, I get what they are trying to go for, but this kind of appeasement won’t fix a group that doesn’t believe in the democracy they live in. What, will they also ban drawing Mohammed since it also upsets muslims and thus incites violence?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Danish parliament on Thursday approved legislation that would effectively prohibit Quran burnings in the northern European country.
Burning, tearing, or defiling religious texts in public could land people up to one or two years behind bars or a fine.
Destroying a holy text on video and then disseminating the footage online could also put offenders in jail.
The Danish Justice Ministry has said the law aims to combat the “systematic mockery” which raises terror threat levels in Denmark.
“History will judge us harshly for this, and with good reason,” Inger Stojberg of the right-wing anti-immigration Denmark Democrats party said in response to the bill’s passage.
The bill, backed by Denmark’s center-right coalition government, was originally introduced in August and then amended due to freedom of speech concerns.
The original article contains 338 words, the summary contains 128 words. Saved 62%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Good. The burning were done specifically to incite hatred and create social turmoil, for the explicit purpose of turning Muslims and non Muslims against each other. Much like free speech does not cover threat or calls to violence, stopping these burnings stops these bad actors while leaving your right to free /speech/ unaffected, so if you want to criticise islam and Muslims, you can still say whatever you want about them, so any claims about free speech are kinda moot.
Very cowardly terminally online comment
Lmao, good to know I got under your skin
Not true but why do you enjoy causing pain to others?
Quite frankly it should be illegal to burn holy books/flags/effigies/etc.
What is possibly gained by symbolically lighting someone’s holy book on fire? Is religion regressive? Absolutely. But all you’re doing is creating righteous indignation in the group you disagree with, making them out to be the sympathetic party, and it kind of makes you look like a culture warrior tool to do the burning.
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