• amzd@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    How does reducing land and water use through your food choice not help the planet?

                  • shapesandstuff@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    Cuz youre lying about a very emotionally charged topic and calling me a liar. If you were not emotionally engaged, youd simply point out the data.

                • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  1 year ago

                  It does, if enough people did it.

                  do you have a plan to make that happen? how many people is enough?

                  • shapesandstuff@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    Are u moving goal posts to feel like you’re winning something or genuinely expect the comment section in an online forum to solve societal issues?

                    Less meat produced = better.

                    How much more better things could be a different wat is irrelevant; using that as an excuse to never do anything is actually damaging.

            • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that’s fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process.

                • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  1 year ago

                  https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/Global-soy-production-to-end-use.png

                  i can’t click your paywalled link

                  here’s what the UN’s FAO says

                  oil is 17.2%. since a soybean is only about 20% oil to begin with, you need to crush 85% of all soybeans to get that much oil. do you see how the vast majority of what is fed to animals is called “soy meal” or “soy cake”? that’s the industrial waste from processing soybeans to oil.

                  • shapesandstuff@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    Its statista, they limit traffic. Try a different browser.

                    Btw funny you link OWID, you should read their article. It doesn’t mention the feed as a side product of oil production, and I’m having trouble finding your quote.

                    Even if its 100% true and just not mentioned in any articles on the matter, then I guess large scale veganism still only removes loads of industrial processes/co2 production, unspeakable animal abuse and insane amounts - and i mean ludicrous amounts - of wasted drinking water.

    • SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      You are making the false assumption that your consumption is causative to the production of animal products which is, unfortunately and non-intuituvely, untrue. The only difference between vegan and non-vegan diets is whether animal products end up on your plate vs. in “cheese mountain” type stockpiles, exports, landfills, etc.

      That being said, ‘commie’ is a terrible communicator if that’s what they’re trying to say. Going vegan does help to highlight some of the contradictions of capitalism and you’re on the right track as it should be advocated for. However, the ‘invisible hand of the free market’ does not translate veganism to any reduction in farmed animals, land or water use.

      • amzd@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        “If you don’t buy it a company will throw it away instead” is not a very good argument to buy something if you even believe it to be true at all.

        • SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          That’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying the act of “not buying it” (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc.

          With the point being that it’s a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed.

          • amzd@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy;

            “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.”

            And I do not accept that.

            • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              it’s not a nirvana fallacy. they’re actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn’t do anything to change any of the problems.

          • rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz
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            1 year ago

            Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don’t like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don’t matter, at all.

            • SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              It’s not defeatist, it’s pushing back against the wishful thinking that “voting with your dollar” is effective and your responsibility ends there.

              • shapesandstuff@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                I mean if they make substantially less money with product x they scale back production. Just like with any other product.

                Really not that complicated. Obviously they’re not tracking my personal consumption, nobody believes that.

          • shapesandstuff@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            Are u saying if over night the entire customer base of meat as a whole stopped buying it would have zero effect? Certainly thats not whay youre saying right?