was funny when rice stole the ball up high against burnley and passed to havertz. he had a open field with no defender close to do something, he then tried to pass to Martinelli, but the pass was so shit and weak (as all his passes are, he NEVER puts any weight, like he’s afraid of miss hitting too hard) that Trossard ended up collecting the pass instead (which made me mad at first but it was the right decision, don’t think it would’ve even got to Martinelli before defenders closed him)
He had great weight to his passes at Leverkusen - it’s like we’re watching a completely different player today.
I recall a lazy sideways pass with no one there to receive and we watched Declan sprint back to retrieve the ball when he was right there and didn’t move to correct his mistake.
It’s the pace he plays at and he doesn’t scan the field enough before receiving the ball. In the Premier League you do not get time and space on the ball, you have to know what you’re going to do next, Havertz is always reacting and never dictating. I don’t know whether this is a confidence issue or simply something he can’t do but it’s not looking good. We’re 3 months in and while he does offer some positives, he doesn’t raise the ceiling of the team, he often looks like he avoids the ball and is only comfortable away from it. It’s like he’s afraid to make mistakes because every mistake he makes is critcised heavily, which only leads to more criticism anyway.
Just for reference, everybody: last year, Xhaka managed 0.18 throughballs per 90, and 0.18 switches per 90. Xhaka is obviously a lot more skilled at that kind of thing, but mostly, that stuff is just the role + deeper blocks.
This nicely illustrates something I’ve been wondering about - namely, Havertz seems to be a much better defender and a much shitter attacker than I thought.
No doubt it’s partly what he’s being asked to do because that’s how players get on the pitch and stay on it, but while Havertz himself often looks like the on-ball play is passing him by, the team look more solid and difficult to handle with him on the pitch.
When we got our “left 8 attacker” I think I mostly expected a 10-lite like everybody else, and to judge him by goals and assists. Failing that I figured you could judge him through involvements, much like Xhaka was - passes, touches, progression etc. Now I wonder if it’s more fair to judge him as a disruptor of the other team’s schemes instead because that seems to be his real talent, to chase the ball down, recover the ball and carry the press for 90 minutes. He’s a handful and I kind of think sometimes the best way to judge a player is to see now how good they “look” in your team, but how much of a pain in the ass they are to the opposition. Havertz appears to be a massive pain in the ass.
(To be fair I also didn’t realize that Havertz was massive and very good in the air so you could probably just say I had no idea what he was like as a player).
I hope the guy makes more of a habit of playing dangerous passes and gets a couple of goals and assists under his belt. I think they’d do him a world of good. But you have to wonder if the reason he’s continually starting isn’t just injuries, it’s that he exemplifies a team that can continually disrupt what the opposition are trying to do.
Haha. Was wondering why they’d use this template, but just saw the original post (it’s from a Chelsea fan): “There is a bunch of reasons why this is sort of unfair, but that doesn’t make it less funny.”
0 through balls. You really have to wonder what the instructions are, because how do you end up with that unless you’re trying to.
Wondering about this too and if Arteta has smth to do with it? Bc even tho he often didnt play well at Chelsea, he progressed the ball way more and had more through balls than at Arsenal so far.
He always plays these passes to his left or right but never attempts to make a cross or vertical throug ball… but then, why would Arteta instruct him to do that?
I think he is getting the hang of it still. There have been a few times he’s played some good passes. I think he actually had a successful throughball in the West Ham league cup game to Eddie.
I think we definitely want him to be more creative, but it just hasn’t worked out so far. But it will come. And partly it is role where he plays much higher up and is required to be a presence in the box. Or he is switching with Saka on the right. So he is playing a very unselfish role and as he gets more comfortable with Arteta’s instructions he will find more room to express himself.
He’s often making the runs into space to move players around and open up the low block. Anyway, where are you supposed to play a through-ball with a low block and how does this rank vs. other players in the team?
This year, supposedly in a slump, Martin Odegaard is in the top 5% for through balls in the Prem. Kai Havertz is tied in the bottom 1% with many shit players with 0 through balls so far. Hell, for reference even Nketiah makes more as a striker.
If he’s the one tasked to make the runs to open up the low block, he can’t also be responsible for playing the through ball pass, he should be the one receiving. I wonder if the teams overall through ball numbers are up or down from last year.
Where is this data from? Coz we could just compare with our other starters. Particularly with those in less advanced positions co maybe comparing him to Ode for through balls might be a bit unfair…
some people here claiming that at RCM his passing would flourish because he’d receiver the ball facing the whole pitch… it didn’t changed a thing, because of what you’ve said. his close control is horrendous, he’s unable to receive and do a half turn, carry and pass it. he doesn’t have the skillset to play midfield at all, not in a creative manner anyway.
This is the thing - he definitely can do that bc he did that at Leverkusen, especially in plays with Brandt. It’s like his mind-body connection broke, because he doesn’t look comfortable in tight spaces and with close control of the ball, which is a problem right now while we’re so congested centrally. He’s good at finding space and breaking through the lines, but he can’t actually do anything with the ball with that at present… which seems to be what Arteta wants him to do.
0 through balls. You really have to wonder what the instructions are, because how do you end up with that unless you’re trying to.
I think that stat captures how we feel he’s not punching the ball through enough and instead is going back or around all the time.
was funny when rice stole the ball up high against burnley and passed to havertz. he had a open field with no defender close to do something, he then tried to pass to Martinelli, but the pass was so shit and weak (as all his passes are, he NEVER puts any weight, like he’s afraid of miss hitting too hard) that Trossard ended up collecting the pass instead (which made me mad at first but it was the right decision, don’t think it would’ve even got to Martinelli before defenders closed him)
He had great weight to his passes at Leverkusen - it’s like we’re watching a completely different player today.
I recall a lazy sideways pass with no one there to receive and we watched Declan sprint back to retrieve the ball when he was right there and didn’t move to correct his mistake.
It’s the pace he plays at and he doesn’t scan the field enough before receiving the ball. In the Premier League you do not get time and space on the ball, you have to know what you’re going to do next, Havertz is always reacting and never dictating. I don’t know whether this is a confidence issue or simply something he can’t do but it’s not looking good. We’re 3 months in and while he does offer some positives, he doesn’t raise the ceiling of the team, he often looks like he avoids the ball and is only comfortable away from it. It’s like he’s afraid to make mistakes because every mistake he makes is critcised heavily, which only leads to more criticism anyway.
Weird i swear i could rmb vividly he putting one through to saka in a recent match
Just for reference, everybody: last year, Xhaka managed 0.18 throughballs per 90, and 0.18 switches per 90. Xhaka is obviously a lot more skilled at that kind of thing, but mostly, that stuff is just the role + deeper blocks.
Think this one shows a clearer picture.
These are so misleading because the area becomes disproportionately huge if you have high score in 2 adjacent skills
This nicely illustrates something I’ve been wondering about - namely, Havertz seems to be a much better defender and a much shitter attacker than I thought.
No doubt it’s partly what he’s being asked to do because that’s how players get on the pitch and stay on it, but while Havertz himself often looks like the on-ball play is passing him by, the team look more solid and difficult to handle with him on the pitch.
When we got our “left 8 attacker” I think I mostly expected a 10-lite like everybody else, and to judge him by goals and assists. Failing that I figured you could judge him through involvements, much like Xhaka was - passes, touches, progression etc. Now I wonder if it’s more fair to judge him as a disruptor of the other team’s schemes instead because that seems to be his real talent, to chase the ball down, recover the ball and carry the press for 90 minutes. He’s a handful and I kind of think sometimes the best way to judge a player is to see now how good they “look” in your team, but how much of a pain in the ass they are to the opposition. Havertz appears to be a massive pain in the ass.
(To be fair I also didn’t realize that Havertz was massive and very good in the air so you could probably just say I had no idea what he was like as a player).
I hope the guy makes more of a habit of playing dangerous passes and gets a couple of goals and assists under his belt. I think they’d do him a world of good. But you have to wonder if the reason he’s continually starting isn’t just injuries, it’s that he exemplifies a team that can continually disrupt what the opposition are trying to do.
Haha. Was wondering why they’d use this template, but just saw the original post (it’s from a Chelsea fan): “There is a bunch of reasons why this is sort of unfair, but that doesn’t make it less funny.”
Wondering about this too and if Arteta has smth to do with it? Bc even tho he often didnt play well at Chelsea, he progressed the ball way more and had more through balls than at Arsenal so far.
He always plays these passes to his left or right but never attempts to make a cross or vertical throug ball… but then, why would Arteta instruct him to do that?
I think he is getting the hang of it still. There have been a few times he’s played some good passes. I think he actually had a successful throughball in the West Ham league cup game to Eddie.
I think we definitely want him to be more creative, but it just hasn’t worked out so far. But it will come. And partly it is role where he plays much higher up and is required to be a presence in the box. Or he is switching with Saka on the right. So he is playing a very unselfish role and as he gets more comfortable with Arteta’s instructions he will find more room to express himself.
Which would be counterintuitive seeing as he played higher up the pitch at Chelsea. Much harder to progress from that position
He’s often making the runs into space to move players around and open up the low block. Anyway, where are you supposed to play a through-ball with a low block and how does this rank vs. other players in the team?
This year, supposedly in a slump, Martin Odegaard is in the top 5% for through balls in the Prem. Kai Havertz is tied in the bottom 1% with many shit players with 0 through balls so far. Hell, for reference even Nketiah makes more as a striker.
If he’s the one tasked to make the runs to open up the low block, he can’t also be responsible for playing the through ball pass, he should be the one receiving. I wonder if the teams overall through ball numbers are up or down from last year.
We play against a low block nearly every game. How many opportunities for through balls do you think there are?
Where is this data from? Coz we could just compare with our other starters. Particularly with those in less advanced positions co maybe comparing him to Ode for through balls might be a bit unfair…
In all the games he’s played so far? I’d wager at least 1
I think some of the low block we see is because we build up slow enough that everyone can get back
idk if it’s just instructions his close control is so bad that I rarely see him be able to set himself for a pass
if you take 2 seconds to get the ball out of your feet then you’re gonna be closed down too quickly
some people here claiming that at RCM his passing would flourish because he’d receiver the ball facing the whole pitch… it didn’t changed a thing, because of what you’ve said. his close control is horrendous, he’s unable to receive and do a half turn, carry and pass it. he doesn’t have the skillset to play midfield at all, not in a creative manner anyway.
This is the thing - he definitely can do that bc he did that at Leverkusen, especially in plays with Brandt. It’s like his mind-body connection broke, because he doesn’t look comfortable in tight spaces and with close control of the ball, which is a problem right now while we’re so congested centrally. He’s good at finding space and breaking through the lines, but he can’t actually do anything with the ball with that at present… which seems to be what Arteta wants him to do.