As posted about recently in !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works and !fediverselore@lemmy.ca it seems that @nutomic@lemmy.ml’s stance on transphobia has not changed and his apology only seems to be that he was sorry he got caught and that someone leaked the DM. This is concerning for an admin of Lemmy.ml and the leader of the project. I don’t think this means we should stop using Lemmy, it’s open-source and even if they embed donation links, they can be stripped out in our fork. But it does make me wonder if we should consider defederating lemmy.ml on that merit. Since if they hold such views on trans issues, it’s very likely they won’t have any desire to act on that type of transphobia being expressed on their instance.
I know that Lemmy.ml has and does handle overt transphobia well, but I can’t speak to their ability to handle less overt or thinly veiled transphobia, and this incident doesn’t inspire much confidence either.
Edit: Since some people haven’t seen the original. I decided to include it here. Warning, it contains transphobia, if you don’t want to see that, don’t open the spoiler.
CW: Transphobic talking points
I’d really like to hear Feedback from Blahaj’s local community on this, I’m not as interested in outside opinions here so please try to refrain from top-level commenting if you aren’t from lemmy.blahaj.zone (I will ignore them if you comment anyway from a remote instance).
give away for free
I’m assuming this is under one of the several threads soliciting donations? Just because it doesn’t require payment to use doesn’t absolve them of any problems people might have that would keep them from handing over money in other capacities.
It’s a bad argument yet devs always seem to want to hide behind it. Free things do not allow someone or somemany to just support horrific things and everybody else has to be okay with that.
lemmy devs being bigoted it’s more likely than it think
i really wish there was a valid lemmy alternative software or wish postmill implemented atproto or ap :(
What statement about transgender people are we talking about?
Sigh, if you must know, here is the context:
CW: Transphobic talking points
I thought more people had seen this since it’s older and pinned in MeanwhileOnGrad.
allowing biological men to compete
I don’t go to this school, but this line seems irredeemably constructed.
This is baffling. How can you be so bad at communism that you think trans rights are something the bourgeoisie are pushing
Yeah. All transphobe considerations apart (and that’s something!), this is a terrible “marxist” take.
We should defederate from lemmy.ml
he regularly bans people for calling .ml users out on their denial of the Uyghur genocide. he was just one stone throw away from also denying the trans genocide.
this is why authoritarians should never get the benefit of the doubt, they’ll never stick with just one dangerous belief.
I’m disappointed in nutomic’s statements as well. I won’t be donating him any money, but it seems hypocritical to say you won’t stop using Lemmy, but you want to defed from .ml.
How? It’s free and open source software. This sentiment just seems dumb. Where’s the implication that using free and open-source software like Lemmy means you need to support the devs or federate with their server? I see no such rule, and it’s not like they can stop or disallow you from using it (nature of open-source).
Anyone can host an instance and choose to run it however they like, the devs have no control in how or why people use Lemmy. It seems like a lot of people have trouble grasping this concept.
I’m not talking about rules. How is using software maintained by nutomic fundamentally different from federating with an instance they run?
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Are there ads on .ml I’m unaware of? I’m using Voyager and don’t see any. I can’t see how me using nutomic’s instance (or federating with it) benefits him any more or less than using his software project. As others have noted in this thread, moderation on .ml is generally excellent, and not tolerant of transphobia.
Ultimately, blahaj isn’t my home so I don’t expect a say in what you decide. I’m just sceptical of the logic here.
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The same way that having code on your computer written by stallman doesn’t mean you support him or his views. Unless the creator backdoored it to do what they want against your authority, it doesn’t mean a whole lot.
OK sure, but how does federating (not even having an account here like me) with his instance mean you support nutomic or his views?
When did I say that? I said we should consider defederation as a community because transphobic views of an admin are risky and may lead to inaction towards transphobia on that server. That’s the whole reason why we defederated feddit.uk before this, which is why I wanted feedback on this, from the local Blahaj.zone community.
Using a discussion forum moderated by someone is a completely different thing than using code written by them. A mod or admin of an instance has power to shape discussion on that instance.
It’s not just about “supporting” him in some abstract sense, it’s about potentially exposing blahaj users to the very hate that blahaj is meant to be a safe space from.
You can block it, but defederating doesn’t seems like a good idea for me.
I’m very aligned with lgbtq ideas (even if i would like better that the notion of gender itself stopped existing, so that people would stop discriminating themselves for dumb reason and be more diverse, but that’s another subject)
But i think defederating from instances you don’t like (except the Very Bad instances) would just make the fediverse more and more torn apart.
One of the coolest things of the fediverse is that you can navigate across instances, ideologies, without the need of using multiple accounts, it’s fe-diverse! If it is to stop that, then lets just go back to forums, it would be easier.
Plus instance wars have always been a dumb thing. (personal opinion and instance which will get me roasted lol)
defederating from instances you don’t like
And that’s where you lost me since I made this post highlighting a problem with management of the server expressing harmful transphobic sentiment and now you are trying to make it out like these are petty personal opinions.
We’ve defederated from servers which allow or don’t care about transphobia already, feddit.uk is an existing example. The fact that you are dismissing the problem like this shows you don’t understand why we have such hostility towards transphobic sentiment or just don’t care.
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yea let’s defederate.
somthin somthin terf-tankie-whatevr… somthin along those lines… i dun evn kno whad those words mean
- TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (transphobia)
- Tankie = Apologists for outright oppressive, murderous regimes like Putin’s Russia and North Korea
seen a couple of TERFs get bullied off of my fedi TLs lately and it warms my heart
Is this guy even real? lmao at this point he might as well admit to being a christo-facist
They’re doing what many TERFs do, trying to cover up their bigotry with politeness and trying to sound like it’s about logic or discussing the meaning of things. Trying to make their transphobia seem acceptable. Then they say trans people are unreasonable when they get called out or banned for their bigotry.
Well terfs are definitely nazis
Lemmy.today maybe too
Lemmy.today has already been defederated from blahaj.zone because they had some nasty spam and transphobia problems.
I think defeating almost any instance is dumb, not my instance though so do what you will.
I never really liked his ideas, trans-related or not, but why the hell was he saying all of that just for a (presumably) message about a Firefox plugin???
I don’t think anything significant would be lost by dumping ml. two years ago sure, the platform was too small but now ml is just annoying. I don’t know how the governance of that sever is set up. but if nutomic has control of the domain, its more a question of when will he decide to change ml rules. I trust ada to make the call when federation with ml becomes a problem. guess i’m just chiming in to reaffirm that for when the time comes. don’t know how lemmy as a platform grows long term if nutomic retains any level of control over it. but i’ll probably just be following you fuckin weirdos onto the next platform so it’s not that big a deal. maybe it could be a nostalgic return to internet forums.
Nutomic doesn’t really mod .ml much anymore.
his current mod practices are not my point. and he’s already banned from here, nutomic isnt a problem here for us in this moment. but if he retains control of the ml server/domain in some way. his responses to db0 definitely show him obsfuscating, not being naive or uninformed. when the blowback from his own statements causes him to drop the mask full-time. ml rules could become whatever he decides and the mod team becomes whatever he needs to enforce that. if the ml server governance is designed in a way to protect against that, great! the odds of it going fully hostile are lower.