I got an old Windows 7 laptop that was going to be thrown out and decided to put Linux on it (see previous thread here). Most people suggested I go with the latest stable version of Debian, so that’s what I installed. I’ve mostly used Windows, but I do have some experience with Ubuntu.

The installation went smoothly, but I’ve had a few problems getting it set up to my liking:

  1. I can’t figure out how to setup flatpak. Everything seems to be working fine until I enter the last line in the terminal:

flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://dl.flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo

I hit enter and nothing happens. No error message or anything. I restarted the computer but flatpak doesn’t work, either through the software center or the flatpak website. I found a few forum posts with the same problem, but no solutions.

  1. I somehow set it up so that my username is not the super user, so I have to type a password in the terminal every time I want to use sudo. Is there a way to fix this without a clean install?

  2. I somehow set up the hard drive partitions so that the OS is on an encrypted partition, so I have to put in a password for the BIOS to boot up. Is there a way to fix this without a clean install?

  3. I’m used to a desktop interface with a toolbar/start menu that I can pin frequently-used programs to, but with Debian it seems like I need to click “Activities” to do anything. Is there a way to set up the interface so it’s more like Windows in that regard?

  4. If I need to do a clean install, I’m thinking of switching to Ubuntu, since I’m more familiar with the interface. Is there any reason why I should stick with Debian? I’ve heard some people trashing Ubuntu but I’m not sure why. Is Debian better for older hardware?

Edit: Thanks for all the knowledgeable replies. I did a fresh install of Debian 12 (64 bit) with KDE and it seems to have resolved all my problems. Although it’s a little slow and buggy, I’ve had to reboot it twice. I’ll try a lightweight DE if that continues.

  • WFH@lemm.eeEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    I’d advise against using flatpaks if you also have the software available in the debian repositories. Always use the package manager instead, when possible.

    Please let me disagree on this. Debian + Flatpaks is actually an awesome combo. Rock solid and super stable base, up to date user facing apps.

    Debian’s life cycle is awesome for core system stuff, it ensures that once your system runs perfectly, it’ll continue to run perfectly for several years without intervention despite always being up to date.

    But for user facing apps, it’s actually really frustrating when you know there is a bug fix or a feature you need that’s been implemented and made available months ago but you’re stuck on a 2-year-old version.

    • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
      1·
      1 year ago

      It’s just, we get so many questions regarding Flatpak from newer users:

      • Why doesn’t App A tie into App B?
      • Why doesn’t the program tie into my desktop environment?
      • How can I install Addons?
      • Why can’t I access files somewhere

      And it’s just not easy. The Apps/Programs are sandboxed and can’t tie into each other unless specifically made for this. Addons need to be put inside of that environment or the program needs to be fitted with some kind of Appstore that incorporates this. You can’t just download an addon from github and drag and drop it like the instruction says. New users blame that on Linux. And you need to understand the additional Flatpak permission system.

      In my experience these problems have really increased in the last year or so.

      Next thing is, you lose what the distro maintainers do for you. They double check that everything works together well and is tied into your desktop. Breaking changes are postponed until the next major releas of the distro. Since you mentioned Debian, they strip tracking behaviour, and most importanly they fix security issues quickly. Once I read about a severe vulnerability in libpng it’s often already fixed or takes them like one to three days.

      Everytime I have a look at ‘flatpak list’ I have like 3 different versions of some runtime installed and it takes half a year until the last flatpak app is updated to the release without that vulnerability. And I get that. Programmers of a project mainly code, and maintenance and packaging the stuff isn’t necessarily top priority on their agenda. But you as a user are exposed for months and I usually expect exploits to appear in the wild after some weeks.

      That may be less of a concern if you install OBS via flatpak or a game. But this would be bad if it’s a web-browser or a messenger.

      That’s why I usually tell people not to use Flatpak. If you know about the consequences and how to handle the sandboxing and get an addon working, go ahead. Maybe subscribe to a mailing list regarding the security vulnerabilities, because that’s now your job.

      For Debian users there are a few alternatives. You could just mix and match software from ‘stable’ and ‘testing’. That is not recommended, but everyone does it. Second thing: Just install Debian testing and you get a rolling distro. That’s what I do and it works great. Well, during the ‘freeze’ for the next version you will experience some delays until they figure out some library updates and dependencies. But that’s alright. [Edit: on second thought: Considering the next comment, maybe I shouldn’t recommend that. It works for me but it definitely has some caveats and you need to understand the consequences I didn’t mention here and be able to fix the occasional hiccup.]

      Or am I too conservative here?

      • WFH@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        All your points are valid, and I agree with most of them except maybe advising people to use Testing ;)

        From a security point of view, Testing is dead last in Debian’s vulnerabilities fix order of priorities after SID and Stable, and fixes in general except when the next release is being freezed. I’ve undergone breaking changes and regressions weekly on Testing, dependency issues that took forever to get fixed, and the year or so I’ve spent on Testing was miserable. Testing definitely has its purposes, but daily driving it on a laptop should not be one of them.

        I understand the issues you’ve got concerning Flatpaks and how it goes against a distro’s philosophy, but I think, from a “normie”'s POV, it’s still miles better than the classic “download a random exe from a random website and never bother having to uninstall and reinstall it every week to keep it up-to-date” windows paradigm. Flatpaks are mainly a solution for developers and package maintainers (package once, distribute everywhere), but it benefits the end users. You get to use “the same version as everyone else”, always up-to-date whether you’re on Debian or on Arch, compiled against a known version of all dependencies so bug reports are more consistent and avoid weird distro-specific behaviors.

        • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
          1·
          1 year ago

          Thanks. You’re right. I’ve edited my comment. I shouldn’t be advertising testing. And I probably misremember how often I fix a minor hiccup that I forget about 2 days later. And I keep an eye on important programs when they get ‘stuck’ or I get aware of vulnerabilities and switch to SID or stable with cherry-picked packages. But that requres you to read all the tech news and that’s not a safe way to do it regardless.

          I agree. Flatpak is lightyears ahead of downloading executables or doing the imfamous ‘curl software/install.sh | sudo bash’ It is definitely the right tool if your alternative is to download something from a random website or the software isn’t packaged in your distro. (And also for proprietary software.)

          I think the correct approach is to ask yourself if you really always need the latest releases and newest version of your software. And if it’s worth the consequences. Flatpak really makes it so easy and smooth that many people aren’t aware it comes with consequences until later. I know everyone always wants everything. Rock stable and tested, bulletproof security and the newest version of everything right away. I do, too. We seem to both like Debian. It’s provided me with most things I need for quite some years and it really earned my trust. We all know how the maintenance process works there and how that turns out. Problem is, if I now circumvent what defines Debian, I kinda lose parts of what makes it great. That should be done with some caution. But sometimes it’s necessary. Sometimes I want unpackaged software. Sometimes I need the newest features of OBS or Kdenlive. Or FreeCAD did some major restructuring and the Debian version just always crashes once I add a chamfer to my 3D-workpiece and Debian keeps that ancient version in the repository. There’s no way around taking matters in your own hand. Also I sometimes keep several versions of browsers around to do some web-development and Flatpak is awesome for things like that.

          Maybe I need to provide people with a more nuanced answer the next time someone asks about Flatpak stuff. The main point is probably that you take matters in your own hands at that point and need to be aware of that. It requires you to make case-by-case decisions and have a look at if the specific Flatpak is maintained well. There is no simple answer anymore. With a distro you mainly get what you asked for and you should know if you chose your distro, and with it the way it handles things, for a reason.