You see, the problem, publishers, is that your “business” should not have been a business in the first place.
“stolen” is such an exaggerated misrepresentation…news organizations should really do better. When you steal something from someone, the owner loses access to it. She just liberated public research.
When a regular person makes something available that shouldnt be behind a paywall to begin with it’s stealing. When a billionaire or company uses ai to gather data from paid sources or just straight out plagiarises it’s just maximising profits.
Hey hey hey, hold on just a second. It’s not called “maximizing profits”, we don’t do that! It’s called ✨innovation✨
disruption 🤌
democratization 🫡
Using public information to create something new is not even a little the same as copying private information and then making it public.
This is why I hate the recent trend where people are saying “If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing”
“Piracy”, or more accurately “copyright infringement” was never stealing. What you’re doing is violating the government-granted monopoly on copying something. That’s so different from stealing.
Also I have met people who have published some pretty important papers, most of them use scihub on a weekly basis, and none of them care that their papers get “stolen”. And they all have some strong opinions about Elsevier.
These articles were stolen, by the paywall operators. Elbakyan rescued them from the thieves. 🎉
like stealing video games that you technically license if you buy, you’re not stealing anything except access which is fundamentally the only thing they can sell
I totally agree that she just liberated it. But since many lawsuits said she was “stealing” from them, and people who don’t know the details at first glance may think that too. So I think the headline is correct in a news sense. And the article is very accurate and favorable of her.
“People often say to me, ‘You don’t pay the authors. You don’t pay the reviewers. You hardly print anymore. The Web is free. Why do you charge?’” said H. Frederick Dylla, the former director of the American Institute of Physics and board member of the Association of American Publishers. “It sounds like a compelling argument. But it actually isn’t.”
Albert Greco, a publishing expert at Fordham University who is working on a book about scholarly publishing, said those making that argument are forgetting everything they learned or should have learned in economics class.
“There are costs,” he said. “Does The Washington Post have a paywall?”
Yes.
“So is it fair then if some high-school student wants to really follow the Supreme Court and doesn’t have the money to pay?” Greco said. “Life is a bitter mystery. We can’t give everything away for free. It’s not that kind of country.”
These assholes don’t even have a better reason for fleecing everyone than base greed, and they don’t try to hide it.
The existence of publishers for scientific literature is completely unnecessary in the modern era. They exist only to make profits to continue their existence. They don’t actually provide value anymore when research institutions can just conduct peer review and then let researchers self-publish.
They create negative value (a bottleneck) by limiting who can access research for just… aggregating and hosting articles.
wouldn’t it be funny if I slapped in a few ssds into an old desktop I found on the side of the road and hosted the entirety of human knowledge from it
YOU wOULDN’T
DOWNLOAd A
CIVILISATION
“It sounds like a compelling argument. But it actually isn’t.”
Well, I’m convinced!
Refuses to elaborate
Sues
‘You don’t pay the authors. You don’t pay the reviewers.
We can’t give everything away for free. It’s not that kind of country.
Instead, he just takes everything from authors and reviewers for free. Is he living in a different country?
No give, only take!!!
former director of the American Institute of Physics
arXiv, which physicists setup nearly as far back as the web, would have a word with this guy. The web was invented at CERN practically so physicists could share research documents.
Yeah lmao, that’s the worst possible argument he could give I think
“Have you forgotten your economics class?” And then compared public research to a private newspaper
Like, lmao
economics class
which is absolute ideology anyhow
“Does The Washington Post have a paywall?”
wow, you’re using the everyone else is doing it argument. These are fucking children
Also the Washington Post actually pays its writers.
This is an insult to children, who are generally willing to share and kind people, unlike these corporate ghouls
Elbakyan is an immeasurably more virtuous, noble and honorable person than these Dylla and Greco worms.
deleted by creator
bitter mystery
No, I think he’s saying that it makes it more miserable and mysterious, but only for poor people, which he is not and therefore the status quo is good.
deleted by creator
“Life is a bitter mystery. We can’t give everything away for free. It’s not that kind of country.”
Tautology School Degree. Why not?
“Does this for profit news agency require money for information? Then surely academic research needs to require money to get the info as well! Nevermind that public funds are involved with a lot of research initially where news orgs don’t have that, we need to make a profit cuz reasons!”
That can’t sounds like won’t
I could almost sympathize when it came to paper publishing. Because the cost to publish was high, and not a lot of people buying. But now with electronic formats, yeah, they are total assholes in the current sense.
While it’s true that publishers do something of value, the amount they charge is absurd.
What makes it even worse is that so many of the people involved are donating their labour. It reminds me of college sports in the US. The actual people doing the work, the athletes, are forced to do it for free. Meanwhile, a few select groups: coaches, TV networks, etc. are making huge amounts of money.
Yeah, I have no problem with people being compensated for their work.
The problem is that the discussion usually ends at “compensation” and never includes “how much?” Useful idiots believe that whatever price is charged is always fair and necessary, which is sad.
In a system literally built around the amount of money we have, we sure do like to believe that magnitude doesn’t matter.
“Stolen”…where did the originals go?
Directly to zlibrary
articles aren’t - and cannot be - stolen; articles are meant to be read.
You can steal potential profits.
Stealing profits that are already made by stealing? Yeah, I have no sympathy for that.
Tax payers already pay for this shit through federal funding of the sciences, just for the publishers to turn around and steal people’s time and money to view and peer review them. Publishers are thieves, so they can go fuck themselves.
I agree, If the research was funded by the government; then the research belongs to the people.
Publishers and corporations is why IP laws are so fucked up beyond recognition.
information isn’t profit
As someone in science that has used this many times, I can’t emphasize enough how much this has accelerated research in the modern era. I am so grateful for her work.
Fr. After I graduated I was cut off from access to scientific literature, which is a major blow when trying to keep up in ones field.
A huge aspect of this also is that it disproportionately benefits academics and students in parts of the world where there is less institutional access to journal subscriptions. That is to say that SciHub has been a significant force for democratising knowledge and countering historic inequities.
Yep, I just found out about it recently because I was doing research on a project. I had heard, but never explored or looked into, sci-hub. I had no idea about it. I don’t know how I missed it all of these years!
Sadly no longer updated but I think libgen and some other services are filling the gaps.
Yeah, I was bummed to find out it’s no longer updated. But there are so many articles that it’s still helpful and great. And she still is holding the flame by keeping it up. I’m checking out libgen right now actually.
I realize this is an older article from 2016. But it’s just so good, I had to share it in case some here aren’t familiar with her. Her name is Alexandra Elbakyan and she’s the person behind Sci-Hub, a library website that provides free access to millions of research papers, regardless of copyright, by bypassing publishers’ paywalls in various ways.
And she’s my personal hero. :)
Thanks for sharing!
Stolen papers. Absolutely. Stolen by corporations.
I wrote one of those papers. The fuckers charged me $1000 to publish it as open access, then other journals download it and stick it on their websites and charge $60 to read it. What a joke!
Ignorant person checking in with probably a dumb and oversimplified question, but what prevents you and other science researchers from posting your writing independently? Why must you submit to these corpo controlled publications?
If you don’t get published, you don’t get cited. If you don’t get cited, it appears your work isn’t important.
That said, every researcher I’ve emailed requesting a copy of a paper gladly supplied it, and many put them up on their uni sites.
That’s such a fuckin’ racket!
Yep, before sci hub you could always just email an author and probably get the paper that way, they aren’t the ones profiting.
Public knowledge can’t be stolen IMHO
“He stole my idea!”
Legends walk among us
Sussy
Hi 😏
Your choice of words may trigger some people around here…
Your choice of words may trigger some people around here…
Can you explain what you mean by that?
Legends walk among us
It’s a game that carries a lot of memes, and I see you have already some replies about your comment being “sus”.
Ahh ok! Thanks for the explanation.
I have no idea why my comment is seen as being “sus” or why my choice of words would trigger anyone.
But meh, Lemmy being Lemmy, I guess.
Filling in Aaron Swartz footsteps
Hopefully not all the way…
Is that the Anna from Anna’s archive?
/s
Alexandra is the hero students (and scientists) all over the world need! And I’m so glad that my former profs acknowledged and recommended Sci-Hub to us. So many people wouldn’t be able to graduate without debt (or “even more debt” for the Americans) otherwise.
That’s fucking great that your profs even recommended it!
When my wife was getting her masters degree, her professor told her about it too lol. All of her professors pretty much used it. When I myself, tried to tell her about sci-hub and libgen, I was surprised that she was already well acquainted
Still insane to me that one woman literally saves the world of science from all this corruption
Perhaps not saved, but I’d venture the most significant nail in the coffin of the scientific publishing mafia so far, pursued with integrity and honor. The rise of open publishing that followed is very telling, and in my mind directly attributable to Alexandra’s work and it’s popularity, they know they need to adapt or (probably and) die.
Still need to work on the publish or perish mentality, getting negative results published, and getting corporate propaganda out of the mix, to name a few.
And she still doing it. And still pretty much alone in doing it.
