And even if they were mostly anti-Zionist, this wouldn’t change ANYTHING. Just because a religious group largely believes so doesn’t give them the right to commit genocide in the first place. And this much focus on trying not to hurt the feelings of an incredibly privileged population in Western society just takes attention away from Palestinians who are ACTUALLY suffering.
Gonna leave this one here
I think it’s much more relevant to say that Zionists have completely captured every single Jewish institution in the West than deciding an arbitrary percentage of Jews being Zionist means the Jewish community is Zionist. It wouldn’t matter if only 30% of Jews are Zionists if those same 30% control every single Jewish institution or are otherwise embedded within centers of Jewish communal life. At the end of the day, Judaism is just an organized religion like any other, and the laity will take cues and follow what the clergy tells them to do. Given that the selling of stolen Palestinian land continues to be conducted within synagogues, I would wager that the percentage of rabbis who are Zionist is noticeably higher than the general Jewish population, and if the percentage for the general Jewish population is already at the high 70%, there isn’t much room for the imagination to speculate what percentage of rabbis are Zionist.
It’s honestly horrifying in ways I find hard to describe seeing people so close in time to a genocide perpetrated against them being so fucking blase about one done in their name.
I’m technically Jewish (mother was), though no religious affiliation. Every single fucking day is a new trove of horrors out of Israel. And zionists LOVE it.
HOW?!?!
They decided Palestinians aren’t people and therefore it’s ok to do what you like to them.
They adopted nazi philosophies, language and policies without a moment of introspection.
Thought this was /slop
Removed by mod
Mainstream political influencers pass as media for me. Piker is part of the Fight Agency consultancy firm political apparatus.
Could you expand on that connection? I can see the general advocacy overlap, but am not deep enough to have seen a clear link to any kind of agency.
Sure here’s a good 10 minute video on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67MSWVJj5js
So is the implication that being Jewish makes you inherently genocidal? Are we trying to conflate the two like the Nazi state does?
Can I just say, takes like this fucking piss me off. As some one who had relatives who grew up in the third reich I just want to say that I do believe lots of Jews are responsible for what is happening in Israel. Just like lots of Germans were responsible for what happened in the third reich, to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Does that mean that all Jews are? No. Or that people should be collectively punished? No. But to pretend that there isn’t something really really wrong going on in the Jewish community right now is bat shit crazy, and I’m sick of having Jewish people complain about every negative comment they hear about themselves and demanding that people clarify their position. I feel like saying fuck Jews is a completely valid statement right now without having to add a hundred sub clauses as to why you’re saying it.
Do you think after this genocide that we are going to be watching 60 years of movies where guys in IDF uniforms are heartless bad guys? Or have tons of media where you get to mow down endless amounts of NPCs in IDF uniforms? Probably not. As some one who comes from that part of the world do you think it was comfortable for me to constantly see people who spoke the language I speak just constantly being referred to as the bad guys? No, it wasn’t did the Nazis deserve it? Yes. Why? Because the Nazis fucking sucked.
Hell the way it’s looking and the amount of fucking capitulating the American left are doing right now I don’t even know if some of the people responsible for this shit will even go to trial, so you know what? Fuck Jews, just like people said fuck Germans, fuck Serbs, Fuck Hutus (lol jk most white people won’t even take the time to remember that one) fuck people who are genocidal, and fuck the people who stood by like cowards and said nothing or cheered it on because they thought they were above the law. Israel has ruined so many peoples lives. Yes there are tons of christian Zionists and fuck them as well, but guess what people have been saying fuck Christianity for ages, and they aren’t getting their asses kicked having their careers ruined, being black listed, or being put in jail for saying it.
Are there bad anti semites who are using this genocide as an excuse to to freely express their anti semitism. Sure but do you know what didn’t help? Having a bunch of shitty Zionists completely silence the left wing opposition. Plenty of Jews made terrible choices which lead us to this point in history and they are responsible whether that hurts your feelings or not.
Racism but make it woke. Alright dawg.
Look, you’ve come to the right conclusion through somewhat dubious reasoning. I’m not going to hand wring too hard about folks like yourself. Like that famous story about norm finklestiens parents.
Not at all. There should be no collective punishment. There shouldn’t be any people getting innocent people getting hurt no matter how horrible the things they supported are. Should some people have to deal with the fucked up shit they did? Yes.
Let’s see if Bibi and the genocide gang face any repercussions for what they did. Until then, fuck those Jews. Part of the problem as to why shit in society has gotten so bad is because a culture of lawlessness has been flourishing. Any society that reaches that point is sick. Sorry if your feelings are hurt, but all of this could have been stopped a long long looong time ago. You do realise that Israel is trying to start an enormous war and invade every neighbor they have right? You do realise that Israel has threatened the world with nuclear annihilation multiple times right? The last 30 years of international politics has been crime after crime after crime. Followed by poor decision making of world leaders everywhere. Nothing needed to get this bad. Humanity has collectively failed itself.
Edit
Also how the fuck do you know I’m Jewish or not? How the fuck do you know if I got Jews in my family or not? Gtfo, I’m sorry if you’re feelings are hurt and if you’re struggling to deal with the fucked up shit that’s going on. But so is everybody else.
Also how the fuck do you know I’m Jewish or not? How the fuck do you know if I got Jews in my family or not?
I don’t? It never came up. I don’t care?
Gtfo, I’m sorry if you’re feelings are hurt and if you’re struggling to deal with the fucked up shit that’s going on. But so is everybody else.
I think you’re projecting here. 🤷
You’re the one saying I’m using woke what ever that means to hide my racism. Sorry that I showed some consideration. /s
Fuck Jews, just like people said fuck Germans, fuck Serbs, Fuck Hutus
I’m saying this isn’t useful or correct, and you want to be legitimized for this take because of how disgusting the crimes of Israel are. I get it, truly. It doesn’t mean it’s good or helpful or wise to flatten the distinction to racial groups, they are not monoliths.
Like I said, racism but woke.
It’s not about conflating the two. It’s about denying the relation between the two as if there is none. Bending over backwards to say the Jewish community doesn’t support Israel when the overwhelming majority does. It’s denying what those Jews believe and inserting your own preferred narrative for them. Because there is a very strong relation between the (especially religiously) Jewish institutions and Zionism. Saying that there isn’t is just plain false.
New banger just dropped: Debunking Zeteo’s Article “Conflating Jews with Israel Is Dangerous”
I think the bigger correlation is that most Jews live in the west and the west is overwhelmingly Zionist.
There are more Christian Zionists than Jewish ones for example.
There’s enormous amounts of Zionist activity happening at Synagogues and other Jewish institutios that don’t happen in Churches. Such as including Birthright trips to Israel. Selling stolen Palestinian land etcetera. It’s far more involved than the way Churches are.
Also I don’t see anyone throwing a hissy fit when someone says the majority of Christians and their institutions are Zionist, and bending over backwards to deny it. I really liked this paragraph from the article:
The article ends with the following paragraph:
I am not advocating, as Hasan Piker recently did, that Jews living outside Israel should disassociate themselves from Israel in order to be safe. Jews are entitled to have an attachment to Israel. What I am advocating is the need to draw distinctions between Jews and Israel and between Judaism and Zionism. Blurring these distinctions, as Judge McFadden did in his recent ruling and as Jewish establishment organizations and the Israeli state do, does not protect Jews; it endangers them.
This is nothing but blatant acceptance, legitimization of Zionism and a contradiction. The author states that Jews worldwide are entitled to have an attachment to Israel and should not dissociate themselves from Israel, yet we must avoid associating Jews with Israel. This is ridiculous nonsense. As even the polls cited in this article state that almost 90% of Jews in America believe in Israel as a Jewish state, which factually makes them Zionists—this is the vast majority. If 90% or even less of any other group of people openly supported an ethnostate, absolutely no one would be wasting their time playing defense for that group. During WWII, no one complained about “conflating Germans with Nazis,” or “conflating white people with apartheid” in South Africa. In every other case, no one is afraid to name the perpetrator group, only for Jews.
I would push back the same way if someone made the same insinuation about Christians.
I just find it suspicious whenever someone paints any group as a monolith as this post implies.
What even is the point? Collectively holding anyone identifying as Jewish as complicit based on statistics that have a lot of other factors? How is it in any way useful to use Nazi methodology against another type of Nazi?
Nobody is throwing “hissy fits” (misogynist term btw) they are rightly skeptical of people whose analysis boils down to “most Jews are genocidal”.
Hasan Piker recently condemned people who sprayed graffity on a Synagogue, saying that was antisemitic and it had nothing to do with Zionism. But the Synagogue was of course very much Zionist. As are almost all Synagogues.
People protest outside Synagogues selling stolen Palestinian land? Zohran Mamdani calls that antisemitic.
This is the result of the endless quest to decouple Zionism from Judaism. Condemning people who oppose Israel as antisemites because an institution committing Zionism is Jewish. Giving power to Labour types to smear Jeremy Corbyn for opposing Israel. You name it they will abuse it all to continue committing genocide against Palestinians.
I just find it suspicious whenever someone paints any group as a monolith as this post implies.
Like when a black activist says “The white man oppresses us” that’s a step too far? See:
During WWII, no one complained about “conflating Germans with Nazis"
The problem you’re having is that you still believe Jews are oppressed, when they’re very much not. They are as Norman Finkelstein recently said “white plus”.
I genuinely don’t give a shit about what Hasan says about anything and I am not claiming Jews are oppressed or that tagging a synagogue is inherently anti-semitic. You are basically putting words in my mouth now.
There’s a huge difference in a black activist saying the white man is oppressing them and when some other white people try to single out any specific group as uniquely or inherently genocidal.
I think that is the crux of the matter here. People are absolutely trying to bring back older forms of prejudice and using Israel as a foot in the door. We have many many examples of it and the problem is that Jewishness is not really material to the fact that it is still just another form of euro settler colonialism draped in different language.
Focusing on the Jewish aspect will never not be suspicious to me.
There’s a huge difference in a black activist saying the white man is oppressing them and when some other white people try to single out any specific group as uniquely or inherently genocidal.
Except all the condemnations and smear campaigns are largely conducted against anyone who is non-white, and it works.
I gave you examples on how trying to deconflate the two is being abused. Nowhere were words put in your mouth. You just can’t seem to understand them.
If you want to seriously engage in a discussion read the article before typing the same generic comment over and over again.
https://tariqacknickulous.substack.com/p/debunking-zeteos-article-conflating
During WWII, no one complained about “conflating Germans with Nazis,” or “conflating white people with apartheid” in South Africa.
So you agree that the problem isn’t Germans or white people… The problem is Nazis and Afrikaners right?
I don’t think anyone is denying that the project that labels itself the “Jewish state” is going to have Jewish proponents. It’s more so that all the wrong types of people that would love to hate Jews, a historically disenfranchised minority, really like the idea of conflating the two. Israel also loves the conflation because if more antisemitism exists, they’re legitimized as being a “safe place” in a world that hates them.
It’s just not useful or helpful is really what it boils down to.
a historically disenfranchised minority
White Jews have more privileges in the west than white anglos. Let’s bring up something from 100 years ago to absolve the next 100 years of crime they have been materially supporting.
Oh. Because “they” are a currently non-discriminated minority now, we should treat them as a monolith and get back to the racism? And while we’re at it we can ignore the amount of evangelicals that are materially supporting the genocide state?
So is the implication that we can’t talk about the surveys, tangible and moral support, or the constant hasbara, or we’re Nazis?
No, all that’s fine as long as you clearly state that you’re not implying that being Jewish makes you a bad person or partially responsible for genocide.
Because that’s what it sounds like you’re implying. And if it is, then that is a logically and morally wrong thing to imply.
The problem is that people aren’t allowed to address the overwhelming support for Israel amongst the Jewish community as if that’s “hating all Jews”.
It’s a thing that needs to be addressed and fixed. Synagogues are selling stolen Palestinian houses and people are being called antisemitic for protesting outside of those Synagogues because “that’s antisemitic”.
The problem is that people aren’t allowed to address the overwhelming support for Israel amongst the Jewish community as if that’s “hating all Jews”.
Of course we are. We can say “there is too much support for Zionism among the Jewish community.” As you say, this is a matter of numbers, and anti-zionist Jews will agree.
But that’s very different from saying “Jews support genocide.” That’s conflating all Jews, ignoring the strong anti-zionist Jewish voices, and opening the doors to our opponents to call us antisemitic.
