• Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works
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    20 hours ago

    People need to accept that the electoral system in the US is just a trolley problem at the end of the day unfortunately.

    • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      Basically, and people let ‘the enemy of perfect get in the way of good enough’. Progress is incremental unfortunately. That’s just how it is. We can accept that, or we get this crap.

        • Soulg@sh.itjust.works
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          19 hours ago

          This is exactly the fucking problem, if it’s not perfect enough then people allow it to get worse instead.

          • skibidi@lemmy.world
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            16 hours ago

            The only way a political party changes is when they stop winning.

            If Democrats think they will win by being Republicans who hate the gays a little bit less, then that is what they’ll do. They were just shown that that isn’t a winning strategy, so we’ll see if the party changes tack or doubles down.

            “You monster, it is your fault you gave us Trump”

            I make my voting preferences known in every primary, state, and federal election. I actively volunteer for candidates I like. The party knows what will earn my vote, if they wanted it. If they make the strategic bet that getting my vote will cost them more from somewhere else, then that is on them.

            “That is so entitled, how could you”

            Have you ever considered that the reason both parties seem so out of touch with mainstream thought is because they have 10s of millions of people who will vote regardless of policy, thereby preventing the parties from understanding what is actually effective in getting them votes?

            Elections are an information gathering mechanism.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              17 hours ago

              You seem to think there will be real elections again rather than the type they have in Russia now that Republicans control all three branches of government.

              I’m not sure why. Do you think they will ever willingly give up power?

              • skibidi@lemmy.world
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                16 hours ago

                It is impossible to argue against conspiratorial thinking.

                Let’s say Kamala had narrowly won the election, would 2028 be the right time to hold the Democrats accountable for real, useful, policy changes? Or would there be another Republican Boogeyman (maybe Ted Cruz again? Or Desantis?) that would absolutely need to be defeated before it would be proper - in your opinion - to ask these public servants to actually serve me?

                According to many commenters here, and I assume many of the downvoters whenever a comment questions the utility of unconditional loyalty to the blue party, the US has been hovering just above an irreversible descent into a fascist dictatorship.

                So let me ask you, which of the leaders you voted for reversed that decline? Because the ‘vote blue no matter who’ dogma has given over a decade of historically unpopular candidates who consistently lose to - again according to you - naked fascists.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  16 hours ago

                  As I keep telling people, I take W.C. Fields’ advice when it comes to voting: “I never vote for, only against.”

                  And people like you don’t get that. I didn’t vote for anyone. I voted against Trump because there were only two viable choices.

                  And this has been true for me for every election in my adult life. Because I do not care about which team you or anyone else is on, all I care about is keeping the worst of the worst out of office.

                  And that failed, which is why I got the fuck out of America before my daughter was forced into a conversion therapy camp.

                  I expect, if you’re like others who take your attitude, your next response will be about how I should put the needs of Palestinians over my own child and there won’t be a genocide of queer people despite them being totally open about their intentions.

                  • skibidi@lemmy.world
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                    16 hours ago

                    How has voting against worked for you? Given that you fled the country, it doesn’t sound like it got the outcome you wanted.

                    With the data point, I’ll keep voting for things I want - will let you know if that strategy works better.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              17 hours ago

              Your vote was meaningless? Even in local elections? You sat out the whole thing because of the top of the ticket?

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  13 hours ago

                  I the fuck just emigrated to the UK because my gay daughter isn’t safe in the U.S. and I am 47.

                  Why does any of that matter?

                  Also, I’m not mad.

                  • baines@lemmy.cafe
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                    7 hours ago

                    yep totally not mad

                    normal to be imo but at least be honest with yourself

                    as to why it matters, you’re clearly ignorant regarding how bad it really is in the south and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt

              • njm1314@lemmy.world
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                15 hours ago

                Unfortunately yeah my vote was pointless and local elections too. I ended up getting a runoff for my city council District, both candidates use pictures of them with Ted Cruz in their advertising. That’ll sober you right the fuck up.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  15 hours ago

                  So the only down ballot election was the one for one city council seat?

                  You must have had a tiny, tiny ballot.

                  • njm1314@lemmy.world
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                    15 hours ago

                    Buddy what kind of down ballot races did you think there where in my area? In an area in which two Maga Republicans who split their vote still won enough of the votes that they were the only two options in the runoff. I want you to think critically about what kind of fucking candidates are running in my area and what kind of vote totals they must have been getting.

    • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 hours ago

      Not quite.

      For starters it didn’t use to be a choice of “who would you rather see killed” - or in other words, nothing was forever lost if one side won instead of the other - and beyond that it has always been a cyclical choice, so it made sense for voters who felt insufficiently catered to, to punish a side on one cycle to try and get it to offer a better deal on the next cycle.

      Whether that remains the case - i.e. will Trump make himself dictator for life - is the big question.

      • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works
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        10 hours ago

        That’s true but I didn’t mean it as a choice of who you’d rather see killed, just that the system is set up in such a way that as a rational voter you are forced into a situation where you must act to prevent the worst outcome rather than voting for your interests and what you believe in.

    • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
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      16 hours ago

      At this point the trolley problem is "would you like to vote for killing 1000 per year for the next four years or would you like to vote for killing 4000 people this year with the hope that maybe it’ll cause the whole trolley system to self destruct…? (The numbers are purely illustrative).

      Edit: apparently it’s not obvious that I think these are both horrible options, and I voted for the limping painfully along for an extended period.

      • Bronzebeard@lemm.ee
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        20 hours ago

        Making things worse based on the idiotic hope that it might somehow magically spark things to get better is the absolute dumbest fucking idea one can have.

      • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
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        20 hours ago

        If by “trolley system to self-destruct” you mean violent revolution and a new system of government imperfect in a completely different way, yes. Good luck with the wait.

        • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
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          16 hours ago

          That’s exactly what I mean, and I agree that it sounds awful. It’s like people go into these conversations deciding which side the other person is on based on which they can argue the most with.