What was the context, reasons and other variables that made them fall out and disagree/dislike each other?
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I’ll never know. I’m not going to investigate the various narratives around their supposed falling out, because the juice can’t possibly be worth the squeeze. It’s century-old, “inside baseball” minutia that almost definitely wouldn’t affect my trajectory.
The explanation I’ve heard that makes the most sense to me is that Lenin’s wife preferred Trotsky to Stalin and essentially fabricated the idea that Lenin did as well shortly before and after his death. She (understandably) spent the most time with him and could claim he had said or written just about anything during a lucid moment. And the details may not even be falsified, just reported through a biased filter - criticism of Stalin emphasized, criticism of Trotsky ommitted or downplayed.
Stalin had a new, younger boyfriend (Mao Zedong) and this angered Lenin…
Ok but seriously, it was a mix of things. Stalin was a bit too harsh for Lenins liking and also insulted his wife to his face…
they also clashed when it came to social matters. Lenin makes homosexuality legal, Stalin makes it illegal again, albeit after Lenin died.
So its possible these differences showed up in their personal relationship.
With that being said, I dont think they had a full blown ”falling out”
The insulting his wife thing is something kinda lost to history. There’s no record of what was actually said. The situation was that Krupskaya, Lenin’s wife, would bring him newspapers against doctor’s orders. Lenin had just had a stroke and his doctors recommended that he shouldn’t read the news because it would stress him out and aggravate his condition. Stalin had heard about Krupskaya doing this and said something to her, possibly very blunt or rude, telling her to stop. This possibly got miscommunicated to Lenin, or maybe he overheard, who knows.
Fact is that Stalin kept visiting and writing to Lenin afterwards so they were probably able to smooth things over.
I think Lenin dying had something to do with it.
Seriously though there is no evidence that there was a “falling out.” Just because Lenin would have liked Stalin to be less rude doesn’t mean they hated each other.
No, there was a falling out. It was because Stalin had been rude to Krupskaya which angered Lenin.
Stalin said something mean to Krupskaya, Lenin got mad at Stalin, Stalin apologized. These things happen between friends. Considering the circumstances of this going on when tensions are high due to Lenin’s illness the whole thing is quite understandable. It is not a big deal.
Its overblown orientalist “Kremlinology” like how China watchers obsess over some party member leaving a speech.
Yeah.
Evidence of a disagreement isn’t evidence that they hated each other and didn’t associate after, that’s what falling out means to me.
Check my other reply in the comments.
I understand that there was an argument, I don’t think it counts as a “falling out” in the way I would use it.
Edit: it looks like it’s used for either (1) “an argument” or (2) “a rift between people caused by an argument”. I’ve never really seen (1) in my vernacular, the difference may be US/UK English.
I agree that there’s evidence for a (1) argument, but not for a (2) rift here.
I hope you like reading
If ‘to preserve “relationships” I have to “withdraw” the words mentioned above, I can withdraw them, but I cannot understand in this business, where my “guilt” is, and what exactly is wanted of me.’
He gets me
I should probably memorize this to use as a goto apology.
Lenin, the wife guy, got angry when Stalin criticized Krupskaya’s constant acts of delivering concerning news to a bedridden Lenin suffering from stress. Lenin mistakenly thought Stalin was insulting Nadezhda and wrote a letter stating Stalin wasn’t qualified for the leadership in the heat of a moment. Despite that, Lenin’s sister said the two had close friendship till Lenin’s death and Lenin trusted Iosef.
Okay then this must’ve been some liberal nonsense or something because I have seen writing where it said that they didn’t see eye to eye at the end of Lenin’s life. If this is just about the wife criticism situation that is it.
It’s the typical narrative creation of the west. The starry-eyed idealist movement is corrupted by the power hungry successor.
It’s the exact kind of thing liberal media does today. Xi Jinping has two teacups at the joint sessions? A brazen power move. Hu Jintao wants to leave early because he’s very very old and is only there in an honourary capacity? Xi is having him removed to show his disfavour.
Liberal private media is a cancer on this world. Even though English is my first and only fluent language: if the whole world just started assuming that someone is lying if they’re speaking in English, the world would be a better place for me.
Here’s the letter from Lenin to Stalin after this incident happened.
Maria Ulyanova (Lenin’s sister) later wrote in a letter to the presidium of the July (1926) Joint Plenum of the Central Committee and the Central Control Commission of the R.C.P.(B.), at which the question had been raised by G. Y. Zinoviev, one of the leaders of the “new opposition”, that Stalin had offered his apologies.
Did they? I only remember the affair involving Stalin’s supposed rudeness towards Lenin’s wife, but that one might not have actually happened the way it did; outside of that, I cannot think of anything indicating a falling-out.
