@juergen_hubert@germany@folklore Thanks - I should rephrase to be more precise. Are these spleenwort associated with local entities/spirits that have supernatural powers? I ask on the basis of local beliefs in SE Asia where plants and natural features often have their own spirits which can be protective, malevolent or neutral to humans.
@Ellirahim@juergen_hubert@germany@folklore
I suspect not. True for Asia, and also Greek & Roman “nymphs” (Dryads) can be associated with particular trees, but I’ve never seen a similar association in Celtic, Norse and Germanic stories.
Celtic traditions seem to associate entities with in habiting particular mountains, ancient megalithic sites/tombs, rivers and wells. Not just Insular Celts, but mainland Europe too as far as Northern Turkey.
His whole “Fireside Fairytales” playlist is worth checking out, and I’m not just saying that because he has read a bunch of my translations as of late. 😁
@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore You’ll be delighted or terrified to know that even in this day and age many people in SE Asia refuse to plant Banana plants near their homes due to the spirit associated with them.
The Thais call her Nang Tani, Malaysians call her Hantu Pokok Pisang while Indonesians and Cambodians call the spirit by different names - we all agree that it is a female and often malevolent spirit.
German folklore does have some “grain spirits”, such as the “rye mother” and the “rye wolf”. They mostly serve to terrorize children so that they won’t go into ripe grain fields and thus damage the crops.
@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore In elementary school in Malaysia - as late as the 1970s - there were mentions in our textbooks of Rice Spirits (Semangat Padi) which were bound to the fields where the crop grew. Back then rice was grown only 1x or 2x a year instead of three plantings per year the way it is today. The main lesson behind the story was that the spirit needed to “rest” and farmers shouldn’t overplant/harvest.
There’s little of that in German folklore - the biblical command to “subjugate the earth” tends to override environmental concerns in the tales.
Though there _is_ a tale where you are supposed to leave a corner of the field alone during the harvest time, in order to appease a certain group of angry, hungry spirits. I couldn’t help but wondering if this was a remnant of older beliefs about spirit worship.
Sometimes the “wisdom” is a little dubious. The folklore of the European alps holds that the upper ranges of the mountains were once fertile meadows, but got covered by ice due to “the sins of humans”.
Considering that those same glaciers are now rapidly melting away _because_ of the “sins of humans”, I find this deeply ironic.
@juergen_hubert @germany @folklore Thanks - I should rephrase to be more precise. Are these spleenwort associated with local entities/spirits that have supernatural powers? I ask on the basis of local beliefs in SE Asia where plants and natural features often have their own spirits which can be protective, malevolent or neutral to humans.
@Ellirahim @juergen_hubert @germany @folklore
I suspect not. True for Asia, and also Greek & Roman “nymphs” (Dryads) can be associated with particular trees, but I’ve never seen a similar association in Celtic, Norse and Germanic stories.
Celtic traditions seem to associate entities with in habiting particular mountains, ancient megalithic sites/tombs, rivers and wells. Not just Insular Celts, but mainland Europe too as far as Northern Turkey.
@raymccarthy @juergen_hubert @germany @folklore
Hope to see more folk stories about these spirits. October being Halloween just makes it prime time to discussion these “things”.
@Ellirahim @raymccarthy @germany @folklore
@rorystarr did a reading about some tales of German water spirits, which you might want to check out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8h7OfWm64
@juergen_hubert @raymccarthy @germany @folklore @rorystarr awesome! I :ablobcatheart:
@Ellirahim @raymccarthy @germany @folklore @rorystarr
His whole “Fireside Fairytales” playlist is worth checking out, and I’m not just saying that because he has read a bunch of my translations as of late. 😁
@juergen_hubert @raymccarthy @germany @folklore @rorystarr Listening to this just strengthens phobia of swimming in lakes, rivers and oceans where I can’t see the bottom. - Strictly land mammal.
@Ellirahim @raymccarthy @germany @folklore @rorystarr
That’s probably the intended effect - scare people (especially children) away from places where they might drown.
@juergen_hubert @raymccarthy @germany @folklore @rorystarr Of course in Malaysia, we don’t need to tell scary stories to keep people away from rivers, lakes and oceans. We have crocodiles that do that effectively. https://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/elderly-malaysian-woman-survives-deadly-crocodile-encounter-collecting-prawns-062619781.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFJ3AES5fd805gb98hEMC13IEkbXySO4hS_fX-rF9dDI7v_8U4tlETTMdT2CiG8uycgD7rsex5X0FRPYNM2chSSGiyFFVWXu9tOYaPMd977bZgx7Z9Ugq5O-ew01RSnuWjM6gqczbtN_p-aSwPB7PcLB4p3eg0BePwOy1Mz0tD2Y
@raymccarthy @Ellirahim @germany @folklore
Yeah, there are spirits of mountains, lakes, springs, and forests aplenty in German folklore - but not of individual plants.
There _are_ some extremely weird, supernatural plants in German folklore - but there is usually no indication that they are actually spirits.
@juergen_hubert @raymccarthy @germany @folklore You’ll be delighted or terrified to know that even in this day and age many people in SE Asia refuse to plant Banana plants near their homes due to the spirit associated with them.
The Thais call her Nang Tani, Malaysians call her Hantu Pokok Pisang while Indonesians and Cambodians call the spirit by different names - we all agree that it is a female and often malevolent spirit.
@Ellirahim @raymccarthy @germany @folklore
German folklore does have some “grain spirits”, such as the “rye mother” and the “rye wolf”. They mostly serve to terrorize children so that they won’t go into ripe grain fields and thus damage the crops.
@juergen_hubert @raymccarthy @germany @folklore In elementary school in Malaysia - as late as the 1970s - there were mentions in our textbooks of Rice Spirits (Semangat Padi) which were bound to the fields where the crop grew. Back then rice was grown only 1x or 2x a year instead of three plantings per year the way it is today. The main lesson behind the story was that the spirit needed to “rest” and farmers shouldn’t overplant/harvest.
@Ellirahim @raymccarthy @germany @folklore
There’s little of that in German folklore - the biblical command to “subjugate the earth” tends to override environmental concerns in the tales.
Though there _is_ a tale where you are supposed to leave a corner of the field alone during the harvest time, in order to appease a certain group of angry, hungry spirits. I couldn’t help but wondering if this was a remnant of older beliefs about spirit worship.
@juergen_hubert @raymccarthy @germany @folklore I’d like to think of that as eco-wisdom passed down from our early farmer ancestors.
@Ellirahim @raymccarthy @germany @folklore
Sometimes the “wisdom” is a little dubious. The folklore of the European alps holds that the upper ranges of the mountains were once fertile meadows, but got covered by ice due to “the sins of humans”.
Considering that those same glaciers are now rapidly melting away _because_ of the “sins of humans”, I find this deeply ironic.