cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/6745228
TLDR: Apple wants to keep china happy, Stewart was going after china in some way, Apple said don’t, Stewart walked, the show is dead.
Not surprising at all, but sad and shitty and definitely reduces my loyalty to the platform. Hosting Stewart seemed like a real power play from Apple, where conflict like this was inevitable, but they were basically saying, yes we know, but we believe in things and, as a big company with deep pockets that can therefore take risks, to prove it we’re hosting this show.
Changing their minds like this is worse than ever hosting the show in the first place as it shows they probably don’t know what they’re doing or believe in at all, like any big company, and just going for what seems cool, and undermining the very idea of a company like Apple running a streaming platform. I wonder if the Morning Show/Wars people are paying close attention.
Bummer. That’s some weak and feckless megacorp bullshit. Just like something Stewart would cover, which is why this show was such a great power move. And yet? Infinite profit over all else, so never mind.
Look at John Oliver, he talks shit about HBO constantly. Do they care? Nope, because he has more Emmys than anyone could know what to do with. Respect your talent and reap the rewards. Pretty basic stuff, Apple.
The difference is HBO is a media company that largely operates in the US, and Jon Oliver making fun of them isn’t going to hurt their business at all. Apple is a hardware company that also makes media. And selling hardware in China is critical to their business. Since the CCP owns China, they can get their panties in a twist and just ban Apple. Like they did with government devices.
As a publicly owned company they have a legal responsibility to maximize profit for shareholders. It’s the same reason why Twitter had to agree to the sale to Elon Musk and why they had to force it. It was a terrible move overall but since Elon was buying all outstanding shares and taking it private, the board literally had no legal choice but to take it since he was offering well over market value.
Public companies don’t get to take moral stands when there’s money on the line. They legally have to put shareholders first.
“Public companies…legally have to put shareholders first.”
I thought this too, but it is apparently a myth.
"There is a common belief that corporate directors have a legal duty to maximize corporate profits and “shareholder value” — even if this means skirting ethical rules, damaging the environment or harming employees. But this belief is utterly false.
To quote the U.S. Supreme Court opinion in the recent Hobby Lobby case: “Modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not.”
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well-being of the business…ahead of well-being of his employees.
Hey, I mean, like, corporations are people too, man.
So corporations too should have to go to jail if they break the law. Or in this case close down the building and not perform any commercial activity for a certain time
Funny how that worked out huh? All the benefits of personhood, but none of the downsides, like mortality, having to pay fair taxes, incarceration for crimes, possible death penalty for killing citizens …
That is literally the whole point of corporations, they’re designed to allow people to take more risk. Business law 101.
(If you grossly abuse it, they will “pierce the corporate veil” and arrest those responsible, but again, that’s only if you’re grossly abusing it)
Still a sticky problem from labor’s perspective, unless the corporate time-out includes salary and healthcare payments. Maybe except the C suite?
But then you might as well keep the company open (Unless it is currently doing harm), and throw the directors in jail.
I always understood stock investing as assuming the risk something like that could happen (I’d a director fucks up, you lose, or vote him out of the job). But now that all of our retirement is tied to the fucking thing it can’t work that way.
Brb gonna go incorporate myself real quick
It’s called incarnation in humans.
Specifically, the thing that is wrong is the idea that the only way to uphold their fiduciary duty to shareholders is to maximize profit. They have a legal obligation to put their shareholders’ interest first, and maximizing short term profit is not the only way to do this. Benefit corps give some of their revenue to a cause, sometimes companies invest in long-term stability or profitability.
Rare supreme Court w I guess? I dunno
It’s a good line in what is otherwise a very, very bad SCOTUS decision that a for-profit corporation can ignore laws protecting female employees because of the corporation’s religious beliefs.
Lol try being a CEO and answering to your shareholders about how you’re not trying to maximize profits and growth. Like it may not be legally required but you’re kind of required to just by the nature of the role itself.
It’s the same reason why Twitter had to agree to the sale to Elon Musk and why they had to force it. It was a terrible move overall but since Elon was buying all outstanding shares and taking it private, the board literally had no legal choice but to take it since he was offering well over market value.
It was put to an actual shareholder vote. The individual shareholders voted yes because he was overpaying. The board was fundamentally irrelevant.
Where’d did this “legal responsibility to maximize profit” bullshit come form?
There is no such law, an no entity to enforce the responsibility.
~Court precedent. Shareholders have sued and won for corporations “failing to uphold fiduciary responsibilities” and other similar bullshit. So, now it’s baked into corporate culture.~
Update: See reply below. Courts have upheld that corporations have no requirement to seek profits over all else.
That’s actually not the case.
“courts have consistently refused to hold directors liable for failing to maximise shareholder value”
"In 2014, the United States Supreme Court voiced its position in no uncertain terms. In Burwell v Hobby Lobby Stores Inc., the Supreme Court stated that “Modern corporate law does not require for profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else”. "
Just more corporate propaganda, that’s all.
https://legislate.ai/blog/does-the-law-require-public-companies-to-maximise-shareholder-value
Holy shit! That’s good to know. Thank you.
The entity is the civil court system, and while there is no law written “no company can work in a way that doesn’t maximize profit”, upon taking investment, it’s typical that companies, the fiduciary, come under the expectation that they’ll be working for the sake of their beneficiary’s interests. In public companies, this interest is clear-cut. Investors want dividends and to see the value of the company increase. This is typically done through maximizing of profits.
So while it’s not explicit that they must forever maximize profits, companies can be successfully sued for not doing so.
Learn more:
Companies have also been sued for not maximizing profits and won the case. “Best interests” can mean a lot of things. It can mean short term profit for one shareholder, long term profit for another, and stable, guaranteed profit for a third.
Apple is a hardware company that also makes media.
Apple is a lifestyle company. The hardware is just the base layer.
They make some of the best CPUs in the industry nowadays, though.
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Meanwhile every major cloud provider is investing in designing and deploying their own ARM silicon. I’ve benchmarked graviton and T2A, the cost per performance is great and only going to get better.
Performance per watt, my dude. But sure, x86s can still heat your house better than Apple silicon.
Performance per watt is a CPU metric I’ve never seen anyone use before lol
It’s wild what Apple marketing comes up with
Yes, measuring the consumption of electricity for a given performance benchmark is totally irrelevant to datacenter providers, who get their electricity for free from the electricity fairy, and thus can harvest pure profit without operational costs.
It is also totally irrelevant for portable devices, because batteries last forever, and every smart phone has a huge fan inside to dump all the heat waste via dual XTREME exhausts.
It’s wild what Apple marketing comes up with
Performance per watt has always been a major concern of chip manufacturers. Sure, they have increased the amount of watts you can throw at a chip without melting it (8086 used 1-2W) , but the most significant improvements have been towards making less watts give more power.
I can appreciate not liking Apple, there are plenty of valid reasons. This is not one of them. Their CPUs are state of the art and took both Intel and AMD with their pants down.
Nah, Apple is an ad aggregation company same as Google. They use hardware and software to lock users into their products so they can show them ads and collect their data to make the ads more targeted. In return ad companies pay them to serve ads to their users. That’s how they make money.
The fuck you smoking. 80% of sales are hardware and 20% is services, ie music, tv, and their cut of App Store sales
Ad revenue from running ads on the app store, their news app , podcast app, etc.
I didn’t claim they were making most of their money that way, but that’s absolutely the business model they’ve been shifting to for the last decade as their hardware sales decrease pretty much quarterly, especially their phone sales.
It was clarified that Apple devices are fine in government. Teslas ban would be a better example
Apple is pretty reliant on China for other aspects of their business though. HBO doesn’t make phones.
reduces my loyalty to the platform
Why the fuck would you have any loyalty to Apple? They sure as shit don’t have any loyalty to their customers. In fact they piss in the face of their customers and tell them it’s raining.
Apple has setup their walled garden in such a way that you’re basically all-in or all-out of their ecosystem. I don’t know that they have brand loyalty as much as they have a captive audience that they can sell iWhatever to over and over again.
they have brand loyalty
Oh, they have some brand loyalty atleast. In my country, Apple has a miniscule market share across all domains[ laptops or phones included ]. They recently launched 2 Apple Stores in a bid to slowly extend themselves inside the market. Quoting from a news article
Another Apple loyalist, Vivek, who waited in the queue for 17 hours to get his iPhone said, "I have been here since 3 p.m. yesterday. I waited in the queue for 17 hours to get the first iPhone at India’s first Apple store.
I’m pretty sure those people who wait in line are either paid to do so, or genuinely suffering from a negative mental health condition.
if you see price of iPhone in developing countries, it cones out to be more than a month of income.
so, it’s essentially a status symbol.So they’re basically 50s house wives showing off their new microwave. Why are humans like this, like I get showing off your shit but doing it for status is just weird.
that’s very much on the point.
As for the reasons — from what I’ve observed — it’s more of a follow culture. they saw someone influencial(in their eyes) doing this, so they now have to ape it. I doubt if there is any more thought process going on here.I have friends who have bought(or actually, have been bought into) these phones on monthly installments.
They could sell bottled water, claiming it’s better than all other water and the absolute fanboys who will live and die by apple will absolutely spend a whole months paycheck and sell their liver just for a single bottle.
Yep, remember this is the company that sold wheels for $700
I’m no fan of Apple, and didn’t want to believe they did this. So I googled, “$700 apple wheels,” and found this.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pro-wheels-kit
I swear they could sell literal feces.
That’s amazing! They also have a stand for $1000, stainless steel feet for $300 and a water bottle for $80.
It’s crazy what money people are willing to throw at apple.
Worst of all, you still need a hex bit (that fits) instead of them adding it to the kit for that ridiculous price.
They currently sell for $1,000.
It’s not even new. It’s been out for over three years.
It’s not just any monitor stand! It tilts and goes up and down and is shiny.
This is, and always has been, an illusion.
They have brand fanatics that don’t want to research alternatives because most Apple users aren’t even close to knowledgeable of emerging technologies outside their own ecosystem.
Apple retains customers by making them comfortable with the fact they offer most of what they need, and in an attractive, easy-to-understand package. The walled garden makes them feel safe and connected in a world they are slowly falling out of touch with, or the world they never were in touch with (the tech world).
I know people of all levels of intelligence that use Apple. It’s not about that… But I don’t know a single apple user (that has chosen that path) that’s highly knowledgeable about things like modern security, privacy, and/or the true potential and limitations of modern devices.
I’ve met a lot of hardcore people way up in the tech hierarchy that rock MacBooks. Like people who maintain popular languages, people who make kernel contributions, people who design CPUs and accelerators.
There are many knowledgeable people who willingly make the choice, understanding the tradeoffs and accepting them. Some people don’t want to be fucking with Arch or Kali for hours, or auditing their smartphone’s firmware, for the same reason most combat veterans don’t walk around wearing a bullet proof vest and a rifle.
Will you meet some hardcore hackers who won’t upgrade the kernel until after they audit the changelog of both the kernel AND the compiler they’re using? Sure. You’ll also meet some people who live in a bunker. They have their valid motives for doing so, and people have valid motives for not doing so.
Those people have MacBooks almost entirely because of the Terminal and because they don’t want to deal with Linux or WSL. Brand loyalty plays little into their decision
No, but they have at least two good sci fi series.
What’s the other one?
Silo
I’d argue that the two are For All Mankind and Foundation. However, Silo, Ivansion, and Severance could all be in that discussion.
Yeah I’m not gonna lie, their streaming platform is incredible but I ain’t giving them any money LOL
They have one or two good shows, but it’s a HUGE stretch to claim the entire offering is “incredible”.
I’ve gotten it for free through tmobile for over a year now, and it’s the least used platform I subscribe to.
Agree to disagree I suppose 🙂
Hell, they tell them its apple juice and people are swallowing as if their lives depend on it. A few people i know use apple products like the iphone, and then complain when certain software doesn’t run on it. I told them thats why they should have stayed with android. And they just get angry because apparently Android is for poor people?
Insert South Park Disney Mickey Mouse China meme
Big props to John for walking away.
How did Apple not see this coming up as future conflict with it’s talent. Its almost like they didn’t watch the fucking show, or the causes he devoted himself to after retiring. It’s a rare thing I know, but not everyone can be bought. His entire platform that he’s built up over the years, would have collapsed if he had pulled a John Cena.
Stewart was “edgy” in the 00s but is largely a safe bet these days. More Kimmel than Oliver.
China was always a danger but also seems like the kind of thing that can be “this is the one topic you aren’t allowed to talk about” and nobody would ever really notice.
The real issue is AI. You can’t NOT talk a bout AI at this point and that is where even liberal leaning centrists tend to have very vocal takes about the implications on labor and media.
I also disagree with the Kimmel comparison, as his facade as a nice guy became transparent as his show progressed. I am not a Stewart fanboy in any sense, and while he may have lost some edge due to maturity, he has stayed true to what he thinks is the right thing.
I am not talking about whether you like them as a person or want to go to their birthday party.
What I mean is that Kimmel will go hard on a “safe” topic like trump but is not going to be causing controversy. That is more or less where Stewart has been since The Daily Show (honestly, kind of during it too).
Whereas people like John Oliver are very much the kind of people you hire knowing that the ratings will be worth the controversy.
but is not going to be causing controversy.
What is this thread about?
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I will admit I really haven’t considered the implications of AI being a real threat. I am aware that it is a potential tool to cut labor costs, but havie not gone further into the rabbit hole.
In the early 2000s, the conservatives were The Man.
Progressive ideology from even 2012 has largely trickled into conservatism as it is now. Modern “progressives” are now going mask off as neoliberal uniparty fascists. It’s why the Democrats and uniparty Republicans both support war while conservatives are opposing it. 40 years ago Republicans fully supported proxy wars with Russia.
Let this be the regular reminder that any time that a gigantic for profit corporation seems to be doing the right thing it’s a mere coincidence and they are following their bottom line. The moment those two depart, they will look after their bottom line right thing be damned. There are no moral corporations.
Maybe those good things they do while are convenient to them are moral and bring real benefits and can be followed and celebrated, but ultimately they are a convenient mask to trick customers. So don’t ever be loyal to a brand, be loyal to principles.
definitely reduces my loyalty to the platform
You are either paying the subscription or not, your inner states mean nothing to them or us.
I can think of an old great daily news show that still doesnt have a permanent host… please!!!..
Or run for president.
I’ve been saying, “Stewart for President” for decades now. He is perfect for the job. He would never want that job, which I just see as further qualification.
Back when he was hosting the Daily Show? Yes. Now? I’ve watched his show a bit and… I think he went a little nuts on that farm of his.
He sounds like vegan Joe Rogan now. Too much conspiracy, too much long anticapitalist ranting while his guests sit awkwardly and say “uh, okay”.
He’s a good guy and what he did for 9/11 first responders was amazing, but he’s not the man he used to be.
Well sure, point is producing Stewart’s show was a notable choice that indicated favourable things about the platform/studio.
Canceling Apple TV over this, knew they were spineless, but this is pathetic since it’s one of the few shows I watch on it. Growing really tired of all these service subscriptions as it is.
Same. This is my 3rd to last subscription. The ones left standing are Spotify and Shonen Jump. Because they still deliver what they are supposed to without bullshit.
Spotify suggests new artists to you based on who pays them the most. Their business model is expanding into you being the product.
I’ll deal with it once it starts affecting my ability to listen to what I want when I want.
But they isn’t a viable option, even sailing the seas isn’t as viable anymore. I tried tidal, but it’s had too many issues and conflicts with my privacy tooling
even sailing the seas isn’t as viable anymore
This is still perfectly viable.
I’ve had issues finding a reliable private tracker
Check out xmanagerapp dot Com. Solid cracked premium Spotify client.
Thank you!!
Spotify is nearing the cut point for me. Subbed since 2011. The UI is getting worse…
I mostly listen in my car. As long as the UI has search and playlists I can make, and those play with no issue, it’s doing what I need. Play button, pause button, etc… I don’t need much else.
I had Netflix and then cancelled it as a cost saving measure during COVID. I also have Prime which I never even bother with, because of it’s fucking format. I wound up with an early sub to YouTube because I got completely enthralled with Time Team. I found that it pretty much has everything I want to watch. I never thought that would’ve happened because I initially considered YT a lower tier service.
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“Let’s talk about all the cheap Chinese labour that Apple uses despite being the 10th richest company in the world.”
“Let’s not.”
Meh, realistically I don’t think Jon does it because he needs money.
He seems like the kind of person who does things because it’s the right thing to do. So taking away his platform isn’t going to make him go away or shut him up.
It might take a while for him to get another one but I’m confident this guy will be on his deathbed telling people in power they suck & should do better.
We need more people like him
Paramount is foaming at the mouth.
Nebula is foaming harder. Honestly they should offer him some sort of syndication, getting Stewart on their platform would solidify them as the YouTube replacement.
I think if Jon jumped to nebula that’d be the final push I needed to subscribe to them
I’d get a lifetime subscription if he went to Nebula.
If I’m not mistaking they stopped offering lifetime subscriptions
That’s a shame. They were a couple weeks ago.
Edit: it seems that you are correct for now.
https://blog.nebula.tv/lifetime-memberships/
They are going to hike the price.
Because we all know how easy it is to silence Jon Stewart.
Something tells me he could get more funding for a show with a gofundme than Apple+ is authorized to spend.
According to The Hollywood Reporter, ahead of its decision to end The Problem, Apple approached Stewart directly and expressed its need for the host and his team to be “aligned” with the company’s views on topics discussed. Rather than falling in line when Apple threatened to cancel the show, Stewart reportedly decided to walk.
Good for Jon Stewart. He held the line even when the money people demanded that he compromise. Maybe a VP pic. I could see it.
He is successful enough, old enough and made enough money, that he can just retire. Threatening him is an empty threat. He is 60 and probably given his long career earned more than he can spend in rest of his life, unless he goes super yacht and private jet crazy.
The whole show was a come back from retirement essentially. A voluntary indulgence on his part. Surely lucrative indulgence, but indulgence still. Apple needed him, he didn’t need Apple.
Most of the crew probably will leave for other project with a letter of recommendation from John in their pocket.
We are in a dystopian future, where cooperate interests trump reporting.
Independence or the free media does not exist anymore, they are all governed by the economic interests of the 1%. Democracy is hereby dead, and nobody is fighting to save it anymore.
Democracy offically died in America the day Citizens United was approved by the Supreme Court.
Say it with me everyone - CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE
Nice post.
Apple tv sucks anyway. I’d like to remind people that it’s near the end of the mls season and they still have no android mobile app. They actively piss on anyone not totally in line with their ecosystem, etc.
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For what it’s worth, they do have an Android TV app.
Which makes the lack of an android app all the more shitty. They have one already but refuse to make it available if the device isn’t connected to a TV.
Then you get into the actual layout of the program. Spoilers are a huge issue. I can’t watch a game later without having the game ruined partially. Sure you can switch off scores, but you still have to scroll through game highlights to get to the full match replay.
another reminder that apple’s “privacy, that’s iPhone” is a marketing gimmick. they profit from surveillance and censorship in China1. elsewhere, this catchphrase has allowed them to suck Facebook’s as revenue into their growing ad business, surpassing even tiktok in terms of ad revenue2.
they’ll happily do pink washing, but will try everything do dilute labour rights3.
so, apple is just your average big tech. nothing exceptional about them(except for them suing regular people to oblivion4).
in case of hitting a paywall, either disable JavaScript, or use bypass paywalls clean.
1: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html
2: https://finshots.in/archive/apple-is-an-advertising-giant-almost/
3: a simple search result would lead you to many such cases: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=apple+labour+rights&ia=web
4: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/technology/apple-trademarks.htmlThey were so close to implementing on-device scanning last year it’s scary. The number of people who supported it because Apple promised to only use it for child sexual exploitation material really shocked me. “Think of the children” really does have a way of making people’s brains short circuit.
It was a lot longer ago, like 2.5 to 3 years ago, but that’s pedantic.
My own father was shocked that they’d do that (his death is how I know the timeline; no sympathy required, I’ve dealt with it, it happens). He really respected them, primarily through my respect of them and excitedness about their tech. He was blown away that they’d even consider such a thing. He just couldn’t calculate how such a misstep could happen. I can, but what a mistake that was.
I’ve seen an argument that this could have been a calculated risk to prevent attacks when they enabled increased encryption. I don’t think it was that, even if that was the resulting effect. They are too protective of their brand to deliberately take a hit.
Looks like I’m going to continue not watching Apple TV for the foreseeable future.
I have many subscriptions that I pay for, netflix (for now), HBO, prime… but Apple is not one of them. I just Sail the seas when I want to watch Severance lol
Severance is one of the most original shows I have ever seen. The torrent must flow
Ahoy, matey
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I didn’t think my opinion of Apple could go any lower but I guess I was wrong.