Please don’t get me confused, I don’t think it’s good this many men voted for The Stain. Also, 52% of WHITE women, but I bet if you combined ALL women, that number would drop dramatically.
My broader point is, IMO, that 42% never gets talked about so why would it grow, yeah?
Or, put another way, when I talk about women, who are my allies against the Patriarchy, I speak of why I like them (because I do, I LOVE women). They are resilient, strong, resourceful, grounded, etc, all the good stuff, and I try to include all women in that, they are my allies. I try NOT to focus on trad wives, manipulators, “gold diggers”, abusers, weirdos like MTG or Caitlyn Jenner , you know, bad people (and there are plenty).
But when I hear about men in the ally space, it feels like I hear all about how awful and dangerous we are and that’s it. And there’s ALWAYS this group of guys willing to go along with it and point and go “yeah, we totally suck! You guys saying we don’t are the real problem!” But, how is that motivating to anyone? It makes me upset, anyways. Maybe I’m just a big emotional baby, who knows?
Meanwhile the right is actively recruiting young men. The name “Manosphere” for their recruitment cedes that ground to them with no resistance. “That’s just how men are, they hate women and vote for Trump because celebrities tell them to.” The right is actively selling their ideology to young men, the left isn’t.
The left has TONS for men. You think men thrive under the patriarchy? Not being able to express emotions, not being able to express fraternal love, not being able to pursue “womanly” or"gay" passions. Men have rarely been more alone and less happy than they are now and left wing ideology can free them.
The left just doesn’t reach out like the right does. We could do a much better job.
The online left also doesn’t do a great job calling out sexism and other behaviours that uphold the patriarchy when it victimizes men. That’s pretty shameful and it’s hard for men to feel safe online in leftist spaces. In person I’ve never had a problem and people have been wonderful. But it’s a barrier to overcome that isn’t there on the right. The right says “you’re amazing because you’re a man, join us and regain your rightful amazing place that your deserve”. That’s a hard message when one side says you’re amazing as you are and the other, the side that prides itself of being open and accepting, is proud to tell you you’re worse than a bear and you shouldn’t feel hurt by that because it’s what you deserve.
That’s exactly it. The right is telling them they STILL have to be impossibly during stupid brutish and horny. That’s basically what an “Alpha Male ™” is. Only the left has an escape for that toxic definition of masculinity, I’m frankly baffled at how we’re losing the fight for boys and men. I’ve never seen the left fumble so badly. But there are a lot of great men on the left working HARD to fix that, so I have hope for the future
The left has TONS for men. You think men thrive under the patriarchy?
The fact that you’re using the word “patriarchy” already contradicts the first sentence, lol. Your whole paradigm rests on a foundation of “all the bad stuff is ultimately male-caused”. It’s your version of original sin, except that ironically there’s actually a path to redemption for religion’s original sin. Your version can’t be redeemed–you’ll always see males as the enemy. Your worldview literally requires it.
The left has TONS of one specific thing for men and boys: contempt.
Honest question, why so defensive? This post is demographic blaming, but am I supposed to go, “oh yeah I suck even though I am an ally.” Is that it? Is that what you want? Subservience? Or an honest conversation so we can move forward?
I just don’t know if its all that valuable. The real change is not that Trump got a bunch of extra votes, its that nobody came out to vote for Harris, the percentages largely are distorted on that basis. Latinos opted to not vote so trump got a higher percentage of latinos, possibly because of Harris’ right wing immigration arguments.
The vice presidential debate where walz sat there and agreed with vance was the truth of this election.
Women largely didnt come out to vote for Harris for some reason despite abortion ballot initiatives being largely successful. I’ve heard enough stories that its possible GOP largely just challenged every woman’s signature/voter status on every ballot they could across america.
I see what you’re saying, and I actually completely agree with a lot of the sentiment. I think the real issue is broader than simple demographics.
That said, if you feel like the obvious alienation men are feeling from allied spaces isn’t a big deal, well, I guess that’s something you can choose to ignore at your own peril. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I’m just some stupid dude.
I mean, I’m out. Doesn’t matter what I do or how I vote I’m going to be called the enemy by the left anyway. They are adamant that I am their enemy and that they are mine. So that’s how it’s gonna be.
Lol “I don’t want to be a right wing asshole, I’m only doing this because you hurt my feelings”
Dude that’s the weakest thing I’ve ever heard. Being in the left means constantly fighting and being attacked by other leftists for being the wrong kind of leftist. That’s what it takes to be on the left and you never had it, it’s what the kids call a skill issue.
Go be a right wing asshole all you want but don’t pretend you didn’t want it all along!
Being in the left means constantly fighting and being attacked by other leftists for being the wrong kind of leftist.
Yes, I’ve noticed the complete lack of civility, and thus a complete lack of teamwork, and thus an utter inability to accomplish goals. “The Left” doesn’t get shit done, so what’s the point of tolerating the infighting?
You come talk to me when you’ve figured out how to get along, work as a team, and are willing to court centrists into supporting you. And not a minute before. If you survive whatever’s next.
The fighting ensures we all stay intellectually honest. It’s a competitive market of ideas that creates positive, progressive ideology. The fighting is also internal, when one of us is fighting the systems that oppress us we all line up to help in solidarity.
Miss my with your pseudosuperiority and go crawl into whatever hateful right wing hole you call home.
Just to understand, you support the right because you think the left are your enemy and actual policy or what they do doesn’t factor into your thinking on who you support?
I don’t support the right nor do I intend to vote Republican. I’m not sure if there’ll be another election, or if the next election held on this soil will be conducted under the same constitution. I don’t know if I’m going to finish this decade living on this continent.
I’ve voted for Democrats since I registered to vote ~20 years ago. Support for the Democrats among young white men has been waning and this is why. More and more of us have been made to feel unwelcome and unwanted and have just…gone elsewhere or stayed home, with the attitude that neither one of these groups is building a future I can live in so fuck it turn on the Xbox. That’s about where I’m at right now.
“The Left” is full of people who like to say words like equality and inclusion while really they’re dreaming of their turn to be the subjugators. Basically none of whom are in any kind of actual office; the Democrats are a center-right party who have been apathetic and accepting of everything the Republicans have done.
As for the people on The Left, the feminists and the queers and the “It’s not racist if it’s against white people,” I don’t have to kill you but I don’t have to save you. I didn’t lose this election for the Democrats; the people who heard “Hey let’s actually talk to young white men on their level and encourage them to vote for us” and said “I’ve got a better idea, let’s spit in their face and demand they vote for us anyway” are the ones who implemented their own defeat. Congratulations. You’re on your own.
Please don’t get me confused, I don’t think it’s good this many men voted for The Stain. Also, 52% of WHITE women, but I bet if you combined ALL women, that number would drop dramatically.
My broader point is, IMO, that 42% never gets talked about so why would it grow, yeah?
Or, put another way, when I talk about women, who are my allies against the Patriarchy, I speak of why I like them (because I do, I LOVE women). They are resilient, strong, resourceful, grounded, etc, all the good stuff, and I try to include all women in that, they are my allies. I try NOT to focus on trad wives, manipulators, “gold diggers”, abusers, weirdos like MTG or Caitlyn Jenner , you know, bad people (and there are plenty).
But when I hear about men in the ally space, it feels like I hear all about how awful and dangerous we are and that’s it. And there’s ALWAYS this group of guys willing to go along with it and point and go “yeah, we totally suck! You guys saying we don’t are the real problem!” But, how is that motivating to anyone? It makes me upset, anyways. Maybe I’m just a big emotional baby, who knows?
Anyways, I’m blabbing. Bad habit of mine.
Nobody hates women like other women.
I could not disagree more. There’s a lot of dudes who really, REALLY hate women. I mean, that should be self evident.
Also, to be clear, there’s very good, reasons for folks to be skeptical about inviting men into allied spaces. It’s complex. People are complex.
I would rather kill myself than vote for trump, who is a sexist, racist and fascist.
And I am with you. The boarder left is in denial that they are alienating especially young men with that behavior.
Meanwhile the right is actively recruiting young men. The name “Manosphere” for their recruitment cedes that ground to them with no resistance. “That’s just how men are, they hate women and vote for Trump because celebrities tell them to.” The right is actively selling their ideology to young men, the left isn’t.
The left has nothing for them, the American left used to be racist and sexist too, but then they expelled the dixiecrats.
Where do you think all that sexist racist scum came from? You think they wave confederate flags for no reason?
The left has TONS for men. You think men thrive under the patriarchy? Not being able to express emotions, not being able to express fraternal love, not being able to pursue “womanly” or"gay" passions. Men have rarely been more alone and less happy than they are now and left wing ideology can free them.
The left just doesn’t reach out like the right does. We could do a much better job.
The online left also doesn’t do a great job calling out sexism and other behaviours that uphold the patriarchy when it victimizes men. That’s pretty shameful and it’s hard for men to feel safe online in leftist spaces. In person I’ve never had a problem and people have been wonderful. But it’s a barrier to overcome that isn’t there on the right. The right says “you’re amazing because you’re a man, join us and regain your rightful amazing place that your deserve”. That’s a hard message when one side says you’re amazing as you are and the other, the side that prides itself of being open and accepting, is proud to tell you you’re worse than a bear and you shouldn’t feel hurt by that because it’s what you deserve.
America enforced an ideal for men that they have to be impossibly strong, stupid, brutish, and horny.
It’s only over the past 20 years that that started to break down, but large parts of the country are still infused with those values.
Everybody is acting so shocked because they lived in the nice parts of the country till now.
That’s exactly it. The right is telling them they STILL have to be impossibly during stupid brutish and horny. That’s basically what an “Alpha Male ™” is. Only the left has an escape for that toxic definition of masculinity, I’m frankly baffled at how we’re losing the fight for boys and men. I’ve never seen the left fumble so badly. But there are a lot of great men on the left working HARD to fix that, so I have hope for the future
The fact that you’re using the word “patriarchy” already contradicts the first sentence, lol. Your whole paradigm rests on a foundation of “all the bad stuff is ultimately male-caused”. It’s your version of original sin, except that ironically there’s actually a path to redemption for religion’s original sin. Your version can’t be redeemed–you’ll always see males as the enemy. Your worldview literally requires it.
The left has TONS of one specific thing for men and boys: contempt.
while were demographic blaming you might as well start talking about latinos
An I demographic blaming?
Honest question, why so defensive? This post is demographic blaming, but am I supposed to go, “oh yeah I suck even though I am an ally.” Is that it? Is that what you want? Subservience? Or an honest conversation so we can move forward?
I just don’t know if its all that valuable. The real change is not that Trump got a bunch of extra votes, its that nobody came out to vote for Harris, the percentages largely are distorted on that basis. Latinos opted to not vote so trump got a higher percentage of latinos, possibly because of Harris’ right wing immigration arguments.
The vice presidential debate where walz sat there and agreed with vance was the truth of this election.
Women largely didnt come out to vote for Harris for some reason despite abortion ballot initiatives being largely successful. I’ve heard enough stories that its possible GOP largely just challenged every woman’s signature/voter status on every ballot they could across america.
I see what you’re saying, and I actually completely agree with a lot of the sentiment. I think the real issue is broader than simple demographics.
That said, if you feel like the obvious alienation men are feeling from allied spaces isn’t a big deal, well, I guess that’s something you can choose to ignore at your own peril. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I’m just some stupid dude.
That problem seems like it could solve itself…
Face eating leopard party hungers…
I mean, I’m out. Doesn’t matter what I do or how I vote I’m going to be called the enemy by the left anyway. They are adamant that I am their enemy and that they are mine. So that’s how it’s gonna be.
Lol “I don’t want to be a right wing asshole, I’m only doing this because you hurt my feelings”
Dude that’s the weakest thing I’ve ever heard. Being in the left means constantly fighting and being attacked by other leftists for being the wrong kind of leftist. That’s what it takes to be on the left and you never had it, it’s what the kids call a skill issue.
Go be a right wing asshole all you want but don’t pretend you didn’t want it all along!
Throw that on the pile of “See what I mean?”
Yes, I’ve noticed the complete lack of civility, and thus a complete lack of teamwork, and thus an utter inability to accomplish goals. “The Left” doesn’t get shit done, so what’s the point of tolerating the infighting?
You come talk to me when you’ve figured out how to get along, work as a team, and are willing to court centrists into supporting you. And not a minute before. If you survive whatever’s next.
Yeah unlike the last administration, who fixed climate change, solved social injustices and totally did not fund a genocide
The fighting ensures we all stay intellectually honest. It’s a competitive market of ideas that creates positive, progressive ideology. The fighting is also internal, when one of us is fighting the systems that oppress us we all line up to help in solidarity.
Miss my with your pseudosuperiority and go crawl into whatever hateful right wing hole you call home.
See? I’m the enemy no matter what I do.
Certainly seems you’re gonna see yourself as a victim no matter what
Just to understand, you support the right because you think the left are your enemy and actual policy or what they do doesn’t factor into your thinking on who you support?
I don’t support the right nor do I intend to vote Republican. I’m not sure if there’ll be another election, or if the next election held on this soil will be conducted under the same constitution. I don’t know if I’m going to finish this decade living on this continent.
I’ve voted for Democrats since I registered to vote ~20 years ago. Support for the Democrats among young white men has been waning and this is why. More and more of us have been made to feel unwelcome and unwanted and have just…gone elsewhere or stayed home, with the attitude that neither one of these groups is building a future I can live in so fuck it turn on the Xbox. That’s about where I’m at right now.
“The Left” is full of people who like to say words like equality and inclusion while really they’re dreaming of their turn to be the subjugators. Basically none of whom are in any kind of actual office; the Democrats are a center-right party who have been apathetic and accepting of everything the Republicans have done.
As for the people on The Left, the feminists and the queers and the “It’s not racist if it’s against white people,” I don’t have to kill you but I don’t have to save you. I didn’t lose this election for the Democrats; the people who heard “Hey let’s actually talk to young white men on their level and encourage them to vote for us” and said “I’ve got a better idea, let’s spit in their face and demand they vote for us anyway” are the ones who implemented their own defeat. Congratulations. You’re on your own.
Man you’re gonna make a great right wing snowflake with all that whining and victim complex you’ve got going on! A+ you were born for this.