I assume years of collectively crying about it online has made something as simple and natural like dating seem like this unachievable task.
Not sure if it’s just me, but I feel like young people are less capable than ever to socialise. I thought I was a social pariah, but I don’t have shit on some people out there.
I think a big part of it is online dating is just how it’s done these days.
But yes, we’ve done a great job of over-complicating something as simple as human interaction.
I think so too. Online dating is just too convenient. It’s easier to arrange a date while playing video games than going into a club or other places you don’t like to begin with. I won’t lament those places dying out. Fuck them, never felt comfortable there.
But online dating should have made things easier not worse. Then again those sites aren’t free of blame too.
The problem with online dating sites is that they have the wrong incentive. They want to make money, not bring people together into lasting relationships.
In stark contrast to pubs and nightclubs
Pubs make just as much money if you’re in a relationship or not. The motivation is to sell you alcohol they don’t care about your relationship status.
I keep saying this cause it’s a take a lot of people gloss over. I haven’t dated in a while because I’m too broke to add anything else to my budget, dive bars included. Dating takes time and money, and if I get more of either, I’m using it to better my situation before thinking about dating.
In a time where real wealth is dwindling for most young men, I can imagine I’m not alone on this.
I started dating my wife when we were both in high school so I’m lucky that I never had to try to start dating in my 20s. But when I was in high school asking out a girl was as simple as walking up and saying “do you want to go out with me?”
I asked out girls that I KNEW there was a 99% chance they’d say no, but I asked anyways. The worst they ever said was “no”. Nobody ever laughed in my face or told all their friends or spread rumors about me, they just said no thank you and I moved on.
This was like 2009-2013 mind you; I think young people are a lot more cruel now than they were then.
Hopefully you have the same luck after your first divorce.
Bruh why would you wish something like that on someone
Not a wish, just statistics. You have a higher chance of getting divorced than staying together.
A lot of people in this thread are talking about how much women suck because of X, Y, Z. But like… have you tried not dating shitty women? Or at least not getting so hung up on a woman who treats you poorly? Yeah, it sucks to be treated badly, but consider that you just dodged a bullet. You don’t need women like that in your life. Find a woman you actually connect with, someone you share interests with, not just someone you want to sleep with.
Two hard truths a lot of single men need to reckon with:
1: Most people are kind of shitty, and therefore, most women are kind of shitty. I could go on about how consumer culture and social media encourage toxic traits, but the fact of the matter is you should focus on not being a shitty person yourself, and you shouldn’t settle for shitty people either.
2: With number one in mind, you need to broaden your horizons regarding what kind of woman you’re attracted to. Porn and social media have rotted our brains when it comes to attraction. Maybe I’m just pervy, but honestly, I can find something attractive in just about everyone. 90% of people are at least a 7/10 if they put in some effort, and a 7/10 who you truly vibe with is better than a 10/10 who treats you like shit. And trust me, when you form a true romantic connection with someone, they become even more attractive in your eyes.
There are good, beautiful women out there, I know because I’m marrying one. We met online, and she’s one of the kindest and smartest people I’ve ever met, and I find her more beautiful than anyone else in the world. And I’m a fat, impoverished, autist. If I can do it, so can you.
Most people are kind of shitty, and therefore, most women are kind of shitty.
I don’t know if this is exactly inspiring anyone haha.
But men are equally shitty, so you just have to find someone on the same shit spectrum as you!
Most of the men in these comments have never tried speaking to a women.
Tell me more of what you know about the commenter’s here.
Dude, read the comments on this post and then go outside and talk to a woman. See if anything said here makes sense. Multiple people here have admitted to never being in a relationship or just giving up on it, so the op is pretty much right. This is a really sad side of Lemmy to see.
It’s pretty obvious man. Get some life experience and you might not be as bitter as the rest. Women don’t owe you or the rest of these incels anything.
Men don’t want to be branded ‘creepy’ and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone. Men listened.
and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone.
I haven’t seen this in the real world at all. lmao
Well when men keep hearing “don’t approach us”, we shouldn’t be shocked when men don’t approach people.
Step 1- be attractive.
Step 2 - don’t be unattractive.
I’m at 0/2 so far are there any more steps?
Be rich
At the same time, lots of men are really shitty when they “approach” women.
“Don’t approach us” is a response to men’s behaviour, not the other way around.
So yeah don’t approach women, got it.
Very incel-y, but sure.
Or, you could take it as a statement with the subtext that it clearly has, which is “dont approach us if youre going to be an asshole.”
If you would rather stew in bitterness than adjust to the above, the first option is likely better for everyone.
I think if women meant that they would say it instead of “never approach women”
Blaming men for listening to women is some new level of crazy
Your inability to understand nuance might be part of the problem. Having to explain every single exception spelled out literally takes too long to get the guy acting creepy away from them.
You haven’t explained anything, you just keep shitting out the same response hoping you’ll shame me into going away.
Yeah, because you’re drowning in self-pity instead of understanding that men are the problem in the vast majority of cases. You’re bitching around instead, that’s typical incel behavior.
You can go up to a woman and flirt with her - just don’t be an asshole and accept a “no” without crying or further harassing her ;) It’s really not hard. Most appreciate it.
Cry me a river. I’ve never heard a women say “don’t approach me”, but I’ve heard many say “don’t be a douche” and “stop thinking you’re a fucking victim”.
You already forgot the bear in the woods?
Apparently you already forgot their reasoning behind it. A bear is a known quantity. Humans can lie to gain your trust, then turn on you. They weren’t saying all men are bad, they were saying that meeting a stand man alone in the woods - you have no idea how this person will act.
The fact that yall are still this mad about this just proves that the entire point behind the thought experiment is right.
The bear metaphor was obviously thinly veiled racism/xenophobia from the start. Lots of conservative/moderate women who are terrified of anyone who isn’t white or who is “illegal”
That’s…just no. Wtf? No.
Source: I’ve actually listened to women, in person, describe their reasoning, instead of making up my own justification for something like the incel community decided to do.
The goal was to increase fear of the “other” - which is a classic right wing tactic.
The bear meme was a conservative astroturfed campaign to push people right - which is why it appeared shortly before the 2024 US elections
This is very tinfoil hatty
IDK women are not scared of me. Maybe the problem is you? Maybe you’re not the victim you think you are and you’re just an ass?
These guys are forgetting that you were the only man that they would prefer over the bear.
Congratulations
Geez you incels are stupid. Between victims like you and wannabe “alpha males” who wanna jerk one another, I agree mens are now a bunch of losers who wont ever get laid.
Get ratiod incel
I thought about it and you’re right, you’re a victim. Women are bad, just don’t approach them and find other dudes likes you to hang out. Good luck.
women are not scared of me
So you’re a pathetically tiny and weak man let, or you’re just unaware of the feelings of women?
You’re not a man, you’re a victim lol. Get use to porn.
Honestly, I get it’s a green text, but this is pretty easily explained. First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time. Yes times are changing, but that’s still pretty standard. Pair that with the fact that dudes usually have to make the first move (again, old gender standards) and the fact that social media adds another layer of risk of being ridiculed or making someone viral because they were ‘crimge’ or ‘gave the girl the ick’ and it’s a pretty stacked deck. Hell, point one is such a strong weigh in that it’s enough to explain all of it. People are more broke than ever, and if dating by default involves going out, well guess that date isn’t going to happen.
I recently ended a 6 year relationship. I’m not going to settle down with anyone again unless they have their own stuff going on like a career and goals. I think a lot of women expect men to manage all the finances, set goals, plan vacations and provide stability but they don’t want to do the traditional gender role stuff like cooking and cleaning or making a home. So what’s the point? Why make someone else’s life easier if they don’t do the same for you? had a son young(I was 19 when I had him) and he’s 11 now, so it’s not like I’m dreaming of starting a family. Most women bring nothing to the table. And if you’re lucky enough like me to have a good income, house, car, etc… you realize a lot of things are easier living alone.
Women want the princess treatment but don’t know how to act like a princess. Beyond that, sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be. I know I sound like a redpill incel but dating shouldn’t be a priority for anyone. What’s the rush? Don’t fall for the first thing you see, make sure they’re worth it first.
Re: “sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be.” Sex with someone you love is the best thing.
Have you actually tried taking unrepentant time off, where you have no work or social obligations, and grabbing unhealthy snacks and drinks, curling up with a good game, and zoning out of reality for hours or days at a time?
Sex is nice and all, and we’re hard wired to like it more than most activities, but it does not hold a single candle to unrepentant free time when you’re not used to said free time.
What a crazy way to say you’ve never had sex.
45% of men 18 to 25 have never asked out a woman in person
I can’t speak for the whole 45% but some of us have heard stories from women about how that other 55% can behave. I think I’d rather wait for a lady to (never) ask me out then put someone in the position of thinking “Oh, is he gonna take it bad if I say no?”
Get out and ask some people. Plenty of women like it as long as you’re polite
Until you approach another wrong one and you get another lecture for saying hi
This shit is actually happening
So walk away from them, or handle it gracefully somehow. It’s the same as trying to make a friend. Doesn’t everyone make friends from time to time?
Interest + effort = relationship of any kind. Find the shared interest, make a little bit of effort… or don’t and the math doesn’t work. If romance doesn’t come, you’ve made a friend.
Enough negative experiences reinforce and define behavior.
This is true for any being with a nervous system.
IDK why you think every individual magically changing is something realistic.
If every individual you approach gives you a lecture you might want to check out not being around those people. Try something different.
I’ve never, ever gotten a lecture. I’ve been married for about four years, but before the pandemic I picked up 4 women in a year that led to relationships of months before I ended them when I realized there wasn’t enough there to keep me interested. Don’t get me wrong, i’ve been dumped plenty and rejected plenty. I just learned to move on from the rejection.
It’s like job hunting, it’s a numbers game and every time you try you have a chance. Every time you don’t try nothing changes.
I just can’t imagine being lectured just by approaching someone and saying hi, asking them a question that is pertinent to the scenario, and giving them a chance to speak.
You haven’t tried dating GenZ women then.
They specifically tell you not to approach women in public.
And you know good and well that asking someone on a date is nowhere close to saying hi. Stop lying to yourself to feel right it’s embarrassing XD
If you’re approaching strangers and asking them for a date and you aren’t an adonis, wealthy or otherwise instantly recognizable in a positive way, you’re gonna get some real negative responses. No one wants some rando just asking them out, but this is not new, this is why if you go to a bar you have a wing man - being solo looks creepy.
It’s true though that I wouldn’t have dated women who are 28 or younger (seems to be the oldest of gen Z.) I’m 40. Even though i’m of another generation it’s basically been a 10% chance or less to approach someone and ask them out… but again if you don’t try it never happens. Most people are in a relationship ALL the time… the best relationships i’ve found have been by making friends first in real world circumstances (board game meetups, parties, work functions/events, hiking meetups, running meetups… you name it…) and then being friendly and literally making friends with people. If you click with someone you can literally feel it, and if you like them enough then after you’re already at least friendly acquaintances you ask them to something.
If you can’t ever make friends at a meetup or event, especially one that invites strangers and often has newcomers, the problem is you.
it’s just that you’re fragile and a disgrace. it’s revolting. the fascists are taking over. grow some confidence. we need heroes, not insecure little boys. you know what will get you laid real quick? bashin the fash.
and you get another lecture for saying hi
I’ve never ever had that happen. And I’m old enough to have fucked your grandma when she was still young and cute.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I just don’t think it’s nearly as common as Lemmy likes to believe.
My personal experience trumps your personal experience!
This is the problem. We’re all so keen to talk, and not to listen. You’re old enough to have fucked dude’s Grandma? Congratulations you lived in a different world.
Congratulations you lived in a different world.
And I’m still in this world. Dude I still date. I’m only in my 50’s. I’m not even as old as Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise.
This is it. I feel like I am inflicting myself on women. That I am a problem for them simply for existing. Why would I do something like that to someone if its as bad as we are always being told?
This is it. I feel like I am inflicting myself on women. That I am a problem for them simply for existing.
And that attitude and thought process is exactly why you would have a hard time dating. Don’t think like that, friend.
Women have been told they only need to exist to be desired and are not putting any effort at the beginning of the relationship and men are getting tired of doing all the lift without any reciprocation.
That has been my experience, anyway, and I’m getting tired of meeting women that show no effort to make things work.
Who told women that?
Didn’t they explicitly ask via #metoo movement and what not for men to NOT approach them directly ever or else they screem that this is harassment?
No that’s totally different. You can approach women just don’t be a douche/creep and respect the rejections and otherwise when it works you’re in.
Your point holds under circumstances that make them uncomfortable like during night or when they’re feeling unsafe because a few bad apples do invoke trauma.
If you’re not a bad apple you have nothing to worry about. Except femcels, those ones are misandrists and theres no hope like for incels. Leave them to correct themselves or stay alone forever.
If you’re not a bad apple you have nothing to worry about. Except femcels, those ones are misandrists and theres no hope like for incels.
It’s not always immediately obvious who those are. So every interaction is a dice roll to see if you get a date, get rejected politely, or screamed at and publicly dragged through the mud. Remember the Instagram gym girls yelling at gym bros glancing in their general direction? For a lot of younger men, the consequences of the risk, however small, outweigh the reward.
And women run the gamble of getting murdered because some little man couldn’t handle rejection, gonna be honest here bud, I think that’s a little bit worse than being posted on someone’s cringe compilation.
Anon is probably in the US: social media, smartphones, and 3rd wave feminism in a deeply religious, traditional, and divided society would explain their problems.
3rd wave feminism
Lol. That’s some incel shit thinking.
“My programming tells me I have to disagree. I don’t know why so I’ll throw out the term I was taught to use”
ha! incel!
You sound like those right-wingers who think communism and socialism are evil terms that should be misconstrued as insults. “Guys, I called them a liberal! Where are my internet points?”
and you sound like an incel, sorry…
Third wave feminism is the “kill all men” wave
It’s the ideology taken to the extreme, it’s not really condusive for living together
You know what? You’re right! Women’s rights and freedoms are the reason I can’t get my dick wet.
It’s a complicated issue with a lot of layers. Like a depressing onion.
Men were told to stop approaching women for any reason in any situation. So we did.
Dating apps and websites have overinflated women’s egos and absolutely obliterated most mens egos. The average looking guy with a job and some normal hobbies is going to get very few matches where as most women get hundreds a day regardless of their level of employment or having hobbies. This leads to women believing they can find the millionaire bachelor if they just hold out for longer when in reality they are not the women that the millionaire bachelor is going to pick.
Most women still expect men to be chivalrous and pay on the first date, but they have no actual intention of pursuing a relationship with that guy. Unfortunately some women have learned they can get a free meal and entertainment for an evening at no cost if they just say yes to dates they have no interest in. Most guys have been burned by that as some point.
A lot of women are still playing games. Saying no because they want the man to “chase” them or “fight” for them. Most guys have stopped entertaining that behavior whatsoever but I still see so many women doing it. As men we can’t tell if that’s what you want or if you actually mean it when you say no so the majority of us will immediately stop pursuing you if you decline us. I’m 33 and women are STILL doing this. I thought it would taper off as I got farther from high school aged girls but from my experience it has not gone down in any significant way.
There are a million other reasons and nuanced details but I am tired of typing.
Myself and most men I know around my age who all did very well in the dating scene when we were younger have just completely given up on dating now. We have zero interest in putting in the time, energy and money into something that yeilds nothing in return these days.
Like most things I think this will reach a breaking point and things will shift but I’m not sure when that will be or what will push things over the edge.
Same here. Most women bring nothing to the table, so there’s no rush. I’d rather save the money and spend my time studying or playing video games
If you don’t like women, then date men. You are telling us you can’t connect to women, then you aren’t attracted to them. If you were you would connect emotionally with them. You’re probably just straight because you were told to be for so long and you made it an identity. Open your mind and think about those male friends you had you made excuses to wrestle with a little bit more just so you could feel his touch. Just give in to what you know to be true.
If he was gay he wouldn’t be in this conversation at all.
Weaponized homophobia is every female narcissist’s favorite tool against men.
My aunt admitted she did the free meal thing back in the 70s. It’s not new. This whole thing is bs. People just have whiny echo chambers now.
I’m gay but I’ve only ever been on dates where both of us paid for our own meals. I think hetero dating is just broken and they should start over
Splitting the bill on the first date is possible with the right women, but for a lot of women the second you mention it they get offended and/or ghost you. I would say ~30% are open to splitting the bill for the first date and the rest find it to be a huge turn off or they will legitimately get mad.
I have had women call me broke and tell me to delete their number when I suggest we split the first date bill before hand. I mean it weeds out the bad ones early but it still sucks.
Okay, but if it’s that big of a deal to you, wouldn’t you be happy to know you’re incompatible with that person right away over such a simple topic?
Yeah but typically that conversation comes after days of texting/calling to get to know them somewhat. It’s not like I’m gonna match with someone and immediately ask them if they are comfortable splitting the bill on the first date. Maybe I should just ask that right out of the gate to avoid wasting time. Idk.
It’s the constant lost progress that wears you down. You’re carrying the conversation and keeping it fun while half the women are dry and give short answers to everything because they are messaging back the 20 other guys who all matched with them that day. So you put in the effort to try and stand out only to find out the night before a date or when a date is first brought up that they aren’t compatible. It’s just draining on you after enough times.
I never said it was a new shitty behavior from women. It’s just that more men are aware of it now. Especially since a lot of women will post about it online and while they do get to share it with their yaaas queen slay fan base men do also see those posts. They see those comments where women are bragging about how many dates they have gone on with zero intention of actually romantically engaging with the man at any point.
And to be clear I am not sitting here thinking this is a one way street. I am fully aware that men have a long history of going on dates just to get laid and then never talking to that woman again.
Both genders got shit they need to work on just like most people got shit they need to work on.
I think you’re still just seeing the noisy few and those people are not the norm. The most vocal people are not necessarily the majority. I think most people on both sides or all sides are just looking for someone they’re compatible with
So either myself and all other other single men I talk to about this all have terrible luck or there is some sort of shift that’s happened in the last ~10 years and it’s finally getting so bad that others are picking up on it.
I was in a relationship or dating in one form or another from the age of like 14 until I was ~27. Only in the last 6-7 years did it get really bad.
I think it’s a combination of a lot of things but ultimately it’s become a numbers game and most guys just don’t want to put up with the bullshit anymore. Especially in this economy many dudes are just checking out. Not only from dating but basically everything.
You’re complaints sound like they were copy and pasted from an Andrew Tate manuscript. Most men I know who are healthy and well adjusted have a girlfriend or wife. I dont think ive dated a woman in the last 5 years who expected me to be chivalrous or wanted to “play games” with me and make me chase. My friends and I have been having amazing luck with dating recently I guess. 8 out of 9 of us are either married or in a long term relationship. And were not rich or extremely attractive lmfao. Maybe it’s because none of us are incels and don’t just wanna fuck the first thing with 2 legs to say yes. I feel like men like you can’t see anything a woman is past the vagina, like maybe if you tried to just be friendly instead of horny they would’ve opened up to you and trusted you. Instead most men act like women owe them something when they buy them a gift or a meal. My friends have paid for my food before and I didn’t get on the ground and suck them off, why should a girl be expected to do that.
