I have been looking at them a lot recently and they have a premium price is it worth it?
What does it look like when you want to upgrade? Like can you just swap out all parts over time and essentially it’s like having a custom desktop, but in small form factor.
Can you buy a base model and upgrade components over time?
Would it suit my use cases for it? Which are to run Linux, I have to use Windows as a Software Dev and so can’t do it on my main. Can I run Minecraft on Linux? I know, but I like that game it makes me happy to unwind.
I want to get more into cyber security related tasks and most likely increase my Darknet activities using Tails.
I have one (FW 16 AMD), I don’t have any complaints so far. It comes mostly assembled but you put your RAM, SSD, screen bezel, keyboard, touchpad and all the port modules yourself. The machine is well built and genuinely very easy to work with. You can swap the keyboard and touchpad without touching a screw.
For the most part it seems like they’re holding up to their promise, you can buy a new motherboard for a CPU upgrade, remove the old one, put the new one in, and you’re good to go with the rest of your existing stuff (as long as it’s compatible, if the new board needs DDR5 instead of DDR4 then you need new RAM too but that’s expected). So far everything I’ve disassembled as part of the firs assembly has been a breeze. It’s a very nice laptop to work on and swap parts that’s for sure. You get the assurance that you can swap the battery, input modules, IO modules for the foreseeable future.
Where I’ve been disappointed is the third-party ecosystem for it is not what I was hoping it would be, there’s not a lot of third-party modules for it. But the designs are all open-sourced so you can 3D print parts for it. Maybe in the future we’ll have more modules. Overall though, it’s not like you could even think about that on any other laptop brands, you get the laptop and it’s what it’ll be for the rest of its life.
Runs great on Linux, most of the company actually uses Linux so support for Linux is very good. All of the models will run Minecraft very well, Minecraft in particular has been known to run significantly better on Linux to begin with, especially on Intel graphics where the OpenGL drivers on Windows are terrible.
One neat thing about swapping the motherboard is that you can easily just 3d print a case for it and use it as a server! I saw a post on the homelab community where FW was selling older model MBs for cheap, and people snapped them up for that. Someone sells a slim case for it, but they also have a printable model for it online
Yep and there’s even a BIOS option for that use case! I really like they they go “oh, people use the parts for that, we’ll add a feature for it!”
That’s awesome. I don’t have one of their products but generally feel a good vibe about the company
Thanks for the information. I think I’ve made up my mind and it will be my next laptop.
I particularly like the idea of 3D printing a case if I ever upgrade the mobo and using it as a server as the replies mentioned.
I have been running one for 2 years and next generation am going to do the thing they were designed to do and upgrade my laptop without throwing away the whole laptop. So for less than $1000 I will be upgrading to something that is faster than my desktop, and it’s portable.
The price tag is premium, at first, then it actually saves money.
What will you do with the old internals?
Sell them
Probably turn it into a dedicated mini pc for the 3D printer. It’s still decently powerful I just don’t need it anymore. I might gift it to someone as a mini pc, depends on if I see someone who needs a computer but doesn’t have one.
That’s cool i thought it was just a cpu not the full motherboard with cpu/gpu etc.
Thanks for the reply.
That makes sense on it being premium at first but then the options are there to upgrade and repurpose old parts.
Totally, I’m not buying a new monitor, keyboard, speakers, webcam, or chassis. Just a new CPU and in this case RAM, as we made the switch from DDR4 to DDR5.
Imagine having to buy a new keyboard, mouse, monitor, and speakers, every time you wanted to upgrade your desktop. It’s the same thing.
You can indeed run Minecraft on Linux. In my opinion, it’s even easier than running it on Windows, since you can use your package manager to install openjdk instead of fishing around Oracle’s website to get the Java 17 graphical installer. I use Prism, which is a 3rd party launcher, and I’m loving the experience.
We hang out at !framework@lemmy.ml
Awesome. Thanks.
I don’t know about the framework laptop, but about the Minecraft question:
Yes, you can absolutely run Minecraft on Linux. It runs on top of Java, so it doesn’t really see the difference between the 2 OS. In fact, I’ve found that Minecraft runs faster for me on Linux than on Windows. The only thing that might not work is the official launcher, but that can be easily replaced (with the added benefit of improved functionality). I can recommend Prism Launcher, but really anything works.
About Bedrock, that’s a different story. Microsoft revamped the PC port of Bedrock, and now calls it “Minecraft for Windows”. It’s fully compiled, and it won’t run natively on Linux. However, I still believe it can be made to work with some Wine trickery.
Thanks for focusing on the Minecraft aspect.
I do play Java so that’s a win and I’m excited to start playing again once I save up to make the purchase.
I saw a video demonstrating specifically the Switch version of Minecraft performing better while emulated on a Steam Deck. Actually hilarious.
I’ll answer what I know:
Yes, you can run Minecraft on Linux. There are both official and unofficial, paid and free versions.
For Java Edition, there’s an official launcher.
For Bedrock, there’s an unofficial bedrock launcher that uses a Google Play account with a Minecraft License.
For Java for free, there are cracked launchers that download as jar files and work great.
For Bedrock for free, I just wouldn’t bother. I’m big into piracy, and even I just gave up and bought a license from Google Play Store. If you want to give it a shot, you can find a launcher that takes x86 apks, but it’s near impossible to find x86 apks that work, and the only ones I found were from super old versions, like pre-1.16.
Thanks. I already own Java Edition and someone else said you can get a third party launcher too which is cool.
Prism Launcher is easily the best third-party launcher, hands down. It’s really useful and intuitive, with instances (basically it lets you make seperate game installs for different modpacks or versions or whatever) and lets you easily install any mod, modloader, modpack, resourcepack, or shaderpack from all the major platforms (CurseForge, Modrinth, FTB, Technic, etc.)
I prefer MultiMC as it does the same while being extremely lightweight. Or does prism have any special features that multimc doesn’t have?
Well, Prism is forked from PolyMC, which is forked from MultiMC. Prism lets you download directly from Curse and FTB, while MultiMC doesn’t.
Ty
Yes, multimc only has a repository of finished modpacks you can download.
I love mine I’ve had it over 2 years. It was a first-gen DIY Framework 13 and I ran into a faulty fan early on. I worked with their tech support and they sent a replacement fan under warranty. Took 5 minutes to put it in and all parts inside have QR codes that take you to the marketplace for replacements and repair instructions.
They do have official Linux support for Ubuntu and Fedora. I can attest to Linux Mint working well on it although I don’t use the fingerprint reader, which I’ve read has some issues on some distros.
As for upgradability, I’ve not needed to yet but you can just order a new motherboard and any other parts off their marketplace and drop it straight in. Should take around 20 minutes or so. I suspect this would take longer on the 16 since it is more complex.
Also, here is a link to the marketplace if you want to browse the parts. I think you could build one from scratch from here, but I think it would cost more that way. https://frame.work/marketplace
Thanks for the reply. I have made my mind up and it will be my next machine.
Thanks for pointing me to the marketplace too.
You’re welcome. I’m glad I could help.
Fingerprint reader working perfectly on my FW16. Not sure it’s the same reader module, but getting it set up on Arch was easy, pretty much worked out of the box in Plasma 6. Adding fprint to
pam.d/sudoalso worked right out of the box for fingerprint sudo.
I have a first Gen core i5 Framework 13. I’ve upgraded a couple components that weren’t so great on those units (hinge and speakers) and the upgrades were easy. Otherwise I’ve been pretty happy with it and haven’t felt a need to upgrade the mainboard yet
So you really can upgrade many parts. I never would have imagined hinges would be upgradable.
Yup, they took feedback from customers and have provided modified components for customers that want to purchase them. Speakers, hinges, screens, stiffer chassis. All able to be replaced with the included screwdriver and guides online.
I have a framework 13. Bought it with 12th gen intel mainboard, upgraded it to AMD when that came out. Also upgraded the battery, RAM, and soon the screen when the 120hz one ships. It’s super easy to get into, just five screws and then pop the trackpad/keyboard cable off. I honestly love it.
Framework has fantastic support for windows and Linux. There used to be some minor fixes needed on certain models but they’ve since resolved them and my experience on Fedora and Arch have been plug and play. On windows they have a driver install script that installs everything in one go, that’s nice too. And yes Minecraft does run on Linux, at least the Java version does. Idk about bedrock though
Thanks for the reply. It will be my next purchase.
Is it better to go AMD in my use case then?
You’ll have just as good of an experience on either Intel or AMD. Framework is releasing a new generation of intel models in August so if you want the most cutting edge model and can wait those are a good bet. But personally I’m very happy with my current gen AMD model’s performance and efficiency so I’ll be waiting a while before another upgrade. There really aren’t any major downsides for any of the current options though, just personal preference.
Typing this from an 11th gen intel framework right now –
I’ve upgraded a few things (namely the CNC shell, the hinges, and the speaker) and it’s pretty painless. I have some experience repairing electronics though – but not a ton – and it’s been generally pleasant. I had some issues with my batch that required more work than I think it probably should have, including an RMA at one point, but that was a few years ago and it seems most of the problems have been ironed out. You can swap out any parts you want and the compatability has been really good, both for hardware and software. You can upgrade any model with any of their components, it’s a whole ecosystem, so buy a config that’s accessible to you and upgrade it then. Everything you asked about being able to do you should be able to do no problem, there’s nothing unique to the framework computers that would stop that from being the case. If gaming is your usecase though, get an AMD machine (or get one of the new 16 inch notebooks, I have a 13 inch one which doesn’t have the space for a dedicated graphics card, so gaming performance has taken a hit accordingly). Hopefully that helps!
Thanks for the reply.
To clarify you’re saying an AMD 13 would be good for gaming or any 16?
It’s made for user reparability/upgradability and has great linux support.
Thanks.
I’ve had my fw 13 since early Feb 2022. So far, I’ve replaced the hinges and upgraded to a new mainboard. (11th gen i5 to 12 gen i7 when it became my main PC).
I’ve redone the thermal paste on the 12th gen 2 times already to clean the fan out and have not had any problems opening things up. I open it up so often to tinker that the pull loop on the keyboard cable finally broke on me a few weeks ago.
My old mainboard is currently running my entire homlab. Opnsense, pihole, Plex, Kavita, audiobookshelf, foundry vtt, *arrs, unifi controller. I threw it into a 3d printed case and its been running fine without any issues.
I thought about upgrading to the fw16, but it’s too expensive for me to justify it. If I want to game I just plug into my eGPU. I don’t need my gaming system to be ultra portable.
I’ll probably upgrade again when they release a new ryzen mainboard that has USB 4 2.0 support so I can take advantage of the additional pcie bandwidth for my GPU.
I would reccomend the fw13 to anyone who is into customizing PCs or is passionate about repairability in the electronics they own.
Thanks for the reply. A few people have mentioned using your old board, when you upgrade, as a server and I like that idea a lot as it really does cut down on the waste when the parts can still serve a purpose even after you’ve upgraded.
Are you using a 3d printed enclosure for your old framework mainaboard/homelab machine?
I love the idea of Framework and I buy laptops that do what they do. But from MegaVendors™
For example my Dell has socketed RAM, now with 128GB in it. It has a socketed CPU and GPU “card” with a mobile Xeon and Quadro rtx 5000. 5 M2 drives inside and a 2.5in area. Battery is pluggable and changeable. The trackpad and keyboard are held in place by a few screws and ribbon cables like everything else. With a small Phillips screwdriver I can replace anything. WiFi card is socketed. Antennas are SMA connectors. I’ve replaced the shell even after a security inspection dropped and damaged the metal enclosure…
I buy it because I can upgrade it within limits as long as the upgraded parts play nice with the main board. A framework promises to do the same except allow a mainboard upgrade. But at that point you’re probably buying everything. How many times, going back to desktop days, have you upgraded the entire system’s motherboard and not the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc…
And at that point you’re really only reusing the shell and screen and battery. The stuff you interact with everyday that will deteriorate or get dirty. And battery has a finite lifespan. Makes sense to upgrade the package when those need upgrading.
I view the framework as a great solution for a picky system user. It’s not for upgrading. It’s for customizing while you have that system. Allowing the maker of 2 or 3 SKUs to sell 1000 different laptops. Versus a Dell that sells 1000 different SKUs doing that internally and some of them allow you to do it externally like mine.
I wish them the best and I may buy one next time I need a beefy laptop. But their current specs don’t come close to matching what I can do. And their parts don’t work for my use like physical 3 button trackpad for example. When they do, awesome. But then, why not just go with the Dell? Who will send a guy to me anywhere in the world for free to fix or swap hardware… ANYWHERE. And no it’s not a corporate purchase, I own it personally and the warranty is standard.
I may buy one to support them once their margins go up and the demand cools. But until then, unfortunately it doesn’t seem to solve an actual consumer problem. It solves a corporate SKU problem that fixes itself as you become a big company.
As a heads up, you can swap the mother board in a Framework. It is expensive for the newer higher end ones, but it is an option.
Yes I know. My point is that’s the ONLY benefit over a big brand that is socketed and upgradeable already. And having bought hardware capable of that for 20 years+, I’ve NEVER done it. Anytime I’m ready to upgrade the CPU or GPU, I generally upgrade both and the motherboard minimally. And for a laptop that is everything. The drives are standardized and socketed. The only thing you keep is the enclosure, screen, and battery. Battery dies with age. Screens die with age. All 3 are cheap and I don’t think worth keeping at the expense of just buying a new one when the upgrade comes.
And I love upgrading my desktops and laptops. Just in the real world of doing it, usually components are replaced generationally at the same time.
I think the GPU being separately upgradable on the 16" pokes a tiny hole in your argument. But I generally agree, there’s not too much that is saved or retained when upgrading. But for some people it’s worth it, if they’re reusing the ram, SSD, Wi-Fi card in addition to the parts you mention, AND they’re not too rough on the case, screen, and keyboard/trackpad.
The GPU on my laptop is also upgradeable. And when I want to upgrade it, it’ll be time for a new CPU too.
As it is now, very few GPUs in a laptop that can pull almost 200W and have 16GB of RAM. Mine is slower than the newest generations for speed but its quicker for long processing and large memory. When a 24GB GPU based on the 5x architecture comes out, I’ll be ready with a new CPU too.
Just got my Framework in the mail today. I’ll report back soon and let you know how it is!
I am excited for you. Hope you have a great day with your new toy.
The Framework laptops can be easily upgraded and/or repaired by just about anybody who can watch a YouTube video. It is indeed possible to buy a base model and then upgrade it later.
Keep in mind however that you can’t just replace the CPU, but you have to replace the whole mainboard. Other components can be swapped at will, like RAM, SSD, Display, camera and microphone module, hinges, … Then of course there are the modules that you can easily swap without even opening the laptop, and can give you different ports, card readers, storage or custom modules (diy projects for example).
The build quality is quite solid on my FW13, the keyboard is decent and the trackpad is quite good. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another one if the need arises…
Thanks for the reply.
My decision has been made after this post. It will be my next laptop.
You’re welcome!
I’m pretty certain you won’t regret it!
