• enbyecho@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    5 months ago

    With no aspirations toward better than “okay”.

    When you take the first step on, say, a hike, do you have no aspirations to take another and another?

    Or would you say… well, this first step is too hard… I’m just gonna lie down and take a nap?

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      5 months ago

      Where is all this “incremental progress” you centerists always talk about? Is it in the room with us now?

      • enbyecho@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        5 months ago

        Where is all this “incremental progress” you centerists always talk about? Is it in the room with us now?

        Undoubtedly you have the privilege not to notice it.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          5 months ago

          Billionaires are richer than ever. Housing is more expensive than ever. Food is more expensive than ever. Healthcare is more expensive than ever. Education is more expensive than ever. The planet is hotter than ever.

          Are you referring to the pretty rainbow flags that McDonald’s hangs once a year? Or the BLM posters in the middle of a gated community with all white residents?

          Go on. Tell me about this incremental progress.

          • enbyecho@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            Go on. Tell me about this incremental progress.

            I can be out and not fear for my life. I can even marry. My partner now only rarely gets “gook” or “chink” yelled at them.

            99.8% of the time when this stuff comes out of folks it’s because they are white and heterosexual and usually male.

            For people secure in their white, hetero-normative privilege it’s understandable that they only care about things that affect them… and there isn’t all that much that affects them directly. But the truth is this is a VERY different world here in the US than when I was growing up. It’s now a world that despite the noise from the MAGA crowd I can exist comfortably and securely as opposed to having to hide in a closet.

            Whenever I have this discussion with folks who aren’t gay or trans or BIPOC, it never occurs to them that there is a difference. Universally it turns out that since they aren’t affected by these huge cultural shifts, they also don’t look at the changes that make life easier for other groups. The simple fact that federal workers now have a $15 minimum wage means that a number of my peers now are not starving working for public lands agencies. That a number of labor laws have been enacted (including recently the non-compete thing) that makes discrimination against protected groups doesn’t affect people like you because you are not typically discriminated against. In some cases the pandemic relief for you folks was just a nice bonus to spend on luxuries, not groceries. The grants for schools didn’t matter because if you have kids they go to nice schools already.

            I’m not going to argue with you - it’s impossible. But please understand that your incredibly narrow view of the world is not shared by those who have experienced this seismic shift over the last 2-3 decades.

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              5 months ago

              Ok. You’re telling me this is incremental progress because what you’ve gained is worth more than everything else that’s gotten worse. Fine. I’ll accept that in the context of this conversation.

              How much more expensive does housing, education, healthcare and food have to get before we can focus on it? How hot does the planet have to get before we can focus on it?

              When do we stop focusing on a specific experience someone has because of their race, gender or whatever else because the overall experience of everyone has gotten so bad we need to address it?

              • enbyecho@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                Nice. I can’t even see your goal posts any more. You went from “there has been NO progress” to “well there has only been progress that matters to you”. Despite the fact that I literally pointed out instances where things have gotten better for many groups of people.

                Bye now.

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  I said there has been no incremental progress and I stand by that because personally setting what you’ve described against higher housing costs, education, food and healthcare along with rising temperatures means we are all worse off including you.

                  Don’t confuse my willingness to set aside my own personal perspectives as moving the goal posts. Us arguing over who’s right there isn’t going to result in anything productive and you know it. So I set aside my personal perspectives and asked you to expand on yours.

                  Your response suggests you’ve never actually thought about it.

          • btaf45@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            Billionaires are richer than ever. Housing is more expensive than ever. Food is more expensive than ever. Education is more expensive than ever. The planet is hotter than ever.

            Thanks to everybody who didn’t vote Dem.

            Healthcare is more expensive than ever.

            Not for people who have Obamacare vs before Obamacare.

              • btaf45@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                How many people do you think had $400 monthly premiums for individual plans back in 2007?

                Every single person who had a preexisting health condition. If they could get insurance at all that is.

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      5 months ago

      Or would you say… well, this first step is too hard… I’m just gonna lie down and take a nap?

      That’s what the party did with the public option and increasing the minimum wage.

      • enbyecho@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        5 months ago

        That’s what the party did with the public option and increasing the minimum wage.

        So because you didn’t get everything you want you are just gonna stamp your feet, take you ball and go home?

        • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          5 months ago

          That’s EXACTLY what they do. Every four years. The Bernie bros did the same thing in 2016, and again in 2020. And these clowns think they’re pulling some new grassroots movement. They have no idea that they’re already considered to be non voters.

          They’re doing nothing. And by that I mean, they’re doing a LOT more nothing than even they think they are. Their little “protest” is completely meaningless.

          Unless their intent is to get trump elected, and for some- this is the case.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            5 months ago

            The Bernie bros did the same thing in 2016, and again in 2020. And these clowns think they’re pulling some new grassroots movement.

            A greater percentage of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton than Clinton supporters voted for Obama. Clinton supporters formed a PAC to get McCain elected.

            They’re doing nothing. And by that I mean, they’re doing a LOT more nothing than even they think they are. Their little “protest” is completely meaningless.

            Since they can be safely ignored, why aren’t you ignoring them?

            Unless their intent is to get trump elected, and for some- this is the case.

            Why do centrists pretend that those to their left are all the way to their right?

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          5 months ago

          Where do centrists keep getting this?

          People to your left are allowed to be dissatisfied even when you get everything you want.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            Yeah this “you’re throwing a tantrum because you didn’t get everything you wanted” is rich coming from the people who got Joe Biden elected in the 2020 primaries. It’s pure projection on their part. They would throw a tantrum if they didn’t get everything they wanted. The moment progressives start dominating primaries these people will stop showing up to vote in the general election.

            It’s pure ego. They’ve built their personality around being “the good guys” compared to Republicans so when someone comes along and says “we need to do more” it’s a crisis for them. They can’t let anyone accomplish more than they did because it would force them to admit they became complacent.

            Democrat voting Boomers are still Boomers at the end of the day. Selfish pieces of shit.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              5 months ago

              They would throw a tantrum if they didn’t get everything they wanted.

              They have. In 2008, Clinton supporters literally formed a PAC to try to get McCain elected because they were so upset that a Black man got the nomination.

            • btaf45@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              5 months ago

              Yeah this “you’re throwing a tantrum because you didn’t get everything you wanted” is rich coming from the people who got Joe Biden elected in the 2020 primaries.

              How do you know that? I voted Bernie and I think you’re throwing a tantrum.

              They would throw a tantrum if they didn’t get everything they wanted.

              I voted Bernie. Not throwing a tantrum. I’m thrilled that Biden is the most progressive president since LBJ if not FDR.