Twelve New Yorkers have begun deliberations on the 34 felony counts against Donald Trump in the first criminal trial of an American president. He is accused of falsifying business records in connection with a payment to a porn star.
One challenge for the jury is the unusual layering of charges: The charges against Mr. Trump are felonies because prosecutors say he falsified the records to cover up another crime.
It’s the coverup that gets you, not the crime.
If he’d have just cut her a check directly, none of this would be happening.
It’s going to be insane if what brings trump down is that he underestimated what his voters would handwave away.
I don’t think he’d have lost a single vote if he just admitted he paid a pornstar for sex. Hell, with the way Republicans act he probably would have gained votes.
I don’t think he’d have lost a single vote if he just admitted he paid a pornstar for sex. Hell, with the way Republicans act he probably would have gained votes.
In hindsight, this is absolutely true. At the time, however, on the heels of the Access Hollywoo tape, it may have been a one-two knockout. Unfortunately, as we have since learned, anything Republicans say or do is perfectly fine with their voters. The political process in the US is forever changed for the worse.
anything Republicans say or do is perfectly fine with their voters.
No. Anything Donald Trump says or does is fine with their voters. Other members of the GOP aren’t always given such leeway. See Kristi Noem as a prime example. There are limits, but only for those not named Trump.
Noem felt confident enough to talk about shooting her dog, and then double down on it after the backlash, and still has a career as an elected politician. She will be elected to the Governor’s office in South Dakota again, and handily.
I agree that there are still limits for Republicans not named Trump (Noem is less likely to be Trump’s VP pick, for example), but even those limits are wildly more lenient than they’ve ever been in US politics.
Yep. IOKIYAR. A Democrat would have been hounded by everyone across the spectrum, including their own party, until they stepped down.
My favorite example is: Al Franken. Guy made a goofy pose - was made to step down, and even to this day, there are certain women that will fly off the handle at the mere mention of…Al Franken.
Ronald McDonald BRAGS about sexually assaulting women, brags about busting into dressing rooms of underage women at “his” pageant, is credibly accused of actual rape, and…he still has a political career and virtually no one in his party is hounding him to step down, step aside, etc.
Noem felt confident enough to talk about shooting her dog, and then double down on it after the backlash, and still has a career as an elected politician. She will be elected to the Governor’s office in South Dakota again, and handily.
I don’t follow South Dakota politics, so I’ll have to take your word on that. I know she’s been banned from every tribal land in the state; how does that impact her re-election chances? Does losing the Native American vote matter enough? And what about the possibility of another Republican rising up and challenging her? (I know there’s no chance in hell of a Democrat winning in SD.)
I agree that there are still limits for Republicans not named Trump (Noem is less likely to be Trump’s VP pick, for example), but even those limits are wildly more lenient than they’ve ever been in US politics.
Oh, absolutely. But even after taking that into consideration, the “limits” for Trump, if there even are any, are even more wildly lenient. Noem at least somewhat hit the limit with the controversy about shooting her dog. If it were Trump, he’d rile everybody up and convince them that the entire breed needs to be exterminated.
I don’t think he’d have lost a single vote if he just admitted he paid a pornstar for sex. Hell, with the way Republicans act he probably would have gained votes.
This might be where his insistence on denying everything finally backfires on him. Because if he didn’t deny that it happened, the Prosecution would not have needed to bring Daniels onto the stand. While the act itself is not a crime, his insistence on having his lawyers deny it, in the face of graphic evidence, will serve to convince the jury that he is a liar, and make them less likely to find his other explanations credible.
I think the nail in the coffin is really gonna be Michael Cohen‘s testimony. Maga world made such a big deal of calling him a liar, but the trial made it very clear that he was Trump’s liar. He lied for Trump, and the evidence corroborates that, as do the witnesses that the defense called.
I’ll go so far as to say that if he had just admitted that the sex happened, he’d walk.
Let’s be realistic. No amount of jury instructions can override basic human nature. And I’d be willing to bet that almost nobody on that jury cared about anything other than the testimony of Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen. Had Trump just acknowledged that the sex happened, there would be no reason to put Daniels on the stand and the jury would be going into deliberations over a whole bunch of boring facts and technicalities that could cure insomnia. Instead, they’re going in there with a vision of an orange man with a mushroom dick in his boxers being spanked with a magazine seared into their heads. Her testimony was (a) largely irrelevant relative to what he’s been charged with, and (b) will be given outsized weight with the jury just because of the scandalous details she gave. Right or wrong, that’s just human nature. Keep her off the stand and you’ve got a case that’s about as exciting as the ingredients on a tube of toothpaste.
If he admits on stand that sex happened, I wonder Melania’s lawyers will get ready to null and void her prenup and take half of his estate. Mathematically speaking, half of 0 is still 0.
She’s not going anywhere. If she splits, she’s off the gravy train. Right now, she can still spend his money while he still has it. She knows she’ll never get a dime from a prenup because he’ll stiff her just like he does everybody else, and tie the case up for years when she sues him.
That’s the thing. Imagine what wonders she can do when Donnie goes to jail for any of his treasons and on top of that she suddenly gets prenup null and voided for cheating - she doesn’t have to fight for his property with his creditors, legitimate and illegitimate children, pornstars, Russian mafia, and any number of lackeys who want replace him.
I wish I had your confidence that he’ll face any consequences. I don’t think his supporters know anything about the trial, other than it’s “a deeply unfair politically motivated witch trial in a kangaroo court”.
I’m just hoping that the remainder of voters aren’t too far gone and realize what a POS he is. The polling being as close as it is concerns me.
It’s the coverup that gets you, not the crime.
If he’d have just cut her a check directly, none of this would be happening.
It’s going to be insane if what brings trump down is that he underestimated what his voters would handwave away.
I don’t think he’d have lost a single vote if he just admitted he paid a pornstar for sex. Hell, with the way Republicans act he probably would have gained votes.
In hindsight, this is absolutely true. At the time, however, on the heels of the Access Hollywoo tape, it may have been a one-two knockout. Unfortunately, as we have since learned, anything Republicans say or do is perfectly fine with their voters. The political process in the US is forever changed for the worse.
No. Anything Donald Trump says or does is fine with their voters. Other members of the GOP aren’t always given such leeway. See Kristi Noem as a prime example. There are limits, but only for those not named Trump.
Noem felt confident enough to talk about shooting her dog, and then double down on it after the backlash, and still has a career as an elected politician. She will be elected to the Governor’s office in South Dakota again, and handily.
I agree that there are still limits for Republicans not named Trump (Noem is less likely to be Trump’s VP pick, for example), but even those limits are wildly more lenient than they’ve ever been in US politics.
Yep. IOKIYAR. A Democrat would have been hounded by everyone across the spectrum, including their own party, until they stepped down.
My favorite example is: Al Franken. Guy made a goofy pose - was made to step down, and even to this day, there are certain women that will fly off the handle at the mere mention of…Al Franken.
Ronald McDonald BRAGS about sexually assaulting women, brags about busting into dressing rooms of underage women at “his” pageant, is credibly accused of actual rape, and…he still has a political career and virtually no one in his party is hounding him to step down, step aside, etc.
Was found liable for sexual assault which is colloquially known as rape.
I don’t follow South Dakota politics, so I’ll have to take your word on that. I know she’s been banned from every tribal land in the state; how does that impact her re-election chances? Does losing the Native American vote matter enough? And what about the possibility of another Republican rising up and challenging her? (I know there’s no chance in hell of a Democrat winning in SD.)
Oh, absolutely. But even after taking that into consideration, the “limits” for Trump, if there even are any, are even more wildly lenient. Noem at least somewhat hit the limit with the controversy about shooting her dog. If it were Trump, he’d rile everybody up and convince them that the entire breed needs to be exterminated.
Repubs see her banned by groups they despise and understand that as her making them angry and “owning the libs.”
I think it varies wildly with republicans. They very nearly elected a known pedophile in one election (not talking about trump).
This might be where his insistence on denying everything finally backfires on him. Because if he didn’t deny that it happened, the Prosecution would not have needed to bring Daniels onto the stand. While the act itself is not a crime, his insistence on having his lawyers deny it, in the face of graphic evidence, will serve to convince the jury that he is a liar, and make them less likely to find his other explanations credible.
I think the nail in the coffin is really gonna be Michael Cohen‘s testimony. Maga world made such a big deal of calling him a liar, but the trial made it very clear that he was Trump’s liar. He lied for Trump, and the evidence corroborates that, as do the witnesses that the defense called.
I’ll go so far as to say that if he had just admitted that the sex happened, he’d walk.
Let’s be realistic. No amount of jury instructions can override basic human nature. And I’d be willing to bet that almost nobody on that jury cared about anything other than the testimony of Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen. Had Trump just acknowledged that the sex happened, there would be no reason to put Daniels on the stand and the jury would be going into deliberations over a whole bunch of boring facts and technicalities that could cure insomnia. Instead, they’re going in there with a vision of an orange man with a mushroom dick in his boxers being spanked with a magazine seared into their heads. Her testimony was (a) largely irrelevant relative to what he’s been charged with, and (b) will be given outsized weight with the jury just because of the scandalous details she gave. Right or wrong, that’s just human nature. Keep her off the stand and you’ve got a case that’s about as exciting as the ingredients on a tube of toothpaste.
If he admits on stand that sex happened, I wonder Melania’s lawyers will get ready to null and void her prenup and take half of his estate. Mathematically speaking, half of 0 is still 0.
She’s not going anywhere. If she splits, she’s off the gravy train. Right now, she can still spend his money while he still has it. She knows she’ll never get a dime from a prenup because he’ll stiff her just like he does everybody else, and tie the case up for years when she sues him.
That’s the thing. Imagine what wonders she can do when Donnie goes to jail for any of his treasons and on top of that she suddenly gets prenup null and voided for cheating - she doesn’t have to fight for his property with his creditors, legitimate and illegitimate children, pornstars, Russian mafia, and any number of lackeys who want replace him.
I wish I had your confidence that he’ll face any consequences. I don’t think his supporters know anything about the trial, other than it’s “a deeply unfair politically motivated witch trial in a kangaroo court”.
I’m just hoping that the remainder of voters aren’t too far gone and realize what a POS he is. The polling being as close as it is concerns me.
A lot of people do think he’s on trial simply for paying a prostitute; they don’t care. Check out a few MAGA interviews on YouTube.
Yes, but he used campaign funds, because he’s a cheap bastard, and he didn’t report it.