• Matumb0@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    You are not in Europe my friend. Why do Americans not even understand their own voting system.

    • Gestrid@lemmy.ca
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      6 months ago

      The Green Party is a thing in America.

      Republican and Democrat are the two biggest parties by a large margin, but a few other smaller parties exist. Plus, some people run as an Independent. They’re not affiliated with any party at all.

      Edit: I never meant to imply the other parties had any chance at winning an election in a meaningful way, which is what these replies seem to think I was saying. (They don’t have a chance, honestly.) But other parties do exist, including a party in which you can “vote green”. That is all I’m saying.

      • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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        6 months ago

        In a first past the post system of districts with single representative candidates, it almost always resolves to two viable parties. That’s the way it’s been for nearly all of American history.

        The parties can change, but the shape of the system remains constant: a vote is only effective when cast for the largest opponent of your least desired candidate. It’s intuitive and discouraging.

        The parliamentary systems used in much of Europe, for all their flaws, do allow for more robust and diverse representation.

      • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Greens in America aren’t in a position to govern. Even if Stein got enough electoral votes through the work of 30-60 literal miracles, she’d be totally unable to govern effectively. You need a deep bench and more of a base in the other branches of government to form a party that can effect changes and run this country

        • PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          6 months ago

          There’s more to federal elections than winning. It’s always hilarious when people that don’t understand how fucked our system is try to teach others.

          • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Despite there being more to federal election third party remains suppressed and will always be suppressed by first past the post.

            • PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              6 months ago

              100%. But ballot access, federal funding, and being able to actually run spoilers locally are pretty important.

              • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Only if you don’t consider the third party’s we have now act as in extention to the pejorative parties.

      • MalachaiConstant@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        There is no viable third party without voting reform.

        If you really want smaller parties to have any chance, go help the people within the democratic party who are trying to make that happen.

      • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        I love how you exactly proved their point without realising. Please go look up the spoiler effect with first-past-the-post voting.

        • Zengen@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Then we can use third party candidates to determine who the power actually goes to. At the end of the day. America is so bipolar split tlboth parties are now completely at the mercy of anyone who can garner 10% support. RFK Jr at this point can literally be the decider or who becomes president and who doesn’t. Maybe we can use that as a tool of power to force the 2 parties to open the voting system up or have their power cockblocked from them every election cycle.

          • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            No, this is not how it works. Please look up the spoiler effect.

            I can’t vote because I don’t live there, but am in the imperial core of countries, so it would be very nice to not have fascists in charge, considering we literally have prosecuted whistleblowers reporting on warcrimes at the behest of the US government. We’re your little bitches whether we like it or not.

            Y’all really do need to be hyper-focused on pushing for sweeping electoral reform, for sure.

            In the meantime though, voting for a 3rd party under your system is basically a vote for the person you don’t want.

            Vote Biden if you would dislike having Trump more. If you don’t want to do that, then yeah, you’re basically admitting you’re cool with the outcome of Trump presidency.

            Please don’t waste your vote, your vassals beg you.

              • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Look up the spoiler effect. Please! This vassal is begging you.

                The question under your system (please inform yourself about first-past-the-post) isn’t who do you want to win, it’s who you do you want NOT to win.

                If you vote for your third-party candidate, it’s equivalent to not having voted at all, if they have no chance of winning.

                You’re going to get Biden or Trump with how people vote (spoiler effect, look it up), one of those is going to win, make your peace with that.

                So, which would you rather?

                I am happy to spell out in greater detail why voting for a third party candidate is a waste of time under your system, happy to chat if there’s still any confusion about it.

                • Victoria Antoinette @lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  The question under your system (please inform yourself about first-past-the-post) isn’t who do you want to win, it’s who you do you want NOT to win.

                  wrong. the question is “who do i want to vote for” and i want to vote for the person i want to win. incidentally, i don’t want to vote for someone i don’t want to win.

                • Victoria Antoinette @lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  If you vote for your third-party candidate, it’s equivalent to not having voted at all, if they have no chance of winning.

                  this is election misinformation. my vote is still counted for the candidate, even if they don’t win, just as trump votes were counted in 2020.

                  • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    If you lived somewhere with a decent preferential voting system, you’d be right.

                    You don’t though, and it’s not misinformation to say that under a first part the post system, voting for a third candidate that is not going to win is a waste of the influence you have. CGPGrey explains it well

                  • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    Then Ms 8h account with their full name (deeeeefinitelty not a shill, deeeefinitelt a genuine user. Yeah people on Lemmy toooootally use their full name as if it were facebook), I’ll just have to conclude you’re trying to sway leftists not to vote for Biden, so the world ends up with trump.

                    I hope you’re unsuccessful.

              • UnityDevice@startrek.website
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                6 months ago

                As an outsider it’s really annoying when someone just doesn’t understand the reality they find themselves in.

                A third party isn’t in the cards, it never is, but it especially isn’t right now. The only way to get a third party elected is to change your voting system, but that’s a process that takes years, decades even. It’s really not as easy as wasting a vote with a third party, it takes a lot more effort. And the only way to start or continue that process right now is to vote Biden because if Trump wins you might not even get another election to vote in.

                And Trump has a good chance of winning because the republicans aren’t having such discussions. They know what to do, and come election day they’ll all march in and do their job, like they do every time. Remember that he only won last time because people like you felt icky about voting for Clinton.

                If you allow me a moment of catharsis, I’ll just add that if you Americans once again subject the world to more Trump insanity, I really hope you get to feel the worst of it.

                • Victoria Antoinette @lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  he only won last time because people like you felt icky about voting for Clinton.

                  he won because people voted for him. I voted against him, and I’m going to again. and I’m voting against biden just like the last time. you’re characterization is patronizing and dismissive of real concerns.

                  really hope you get to feel the worst of it.

                  why the fuck would you wish that on anyone?