My family immigrated to the UK from Poland when I was six. I’m 20 now, speak much better English than Polish and feel like this is my land/culture. However I have a Polish first and last name, Polish passport and “unique” accent everyone picks up on, so despite this I’m usually perceived as an outsider. It makes me really sad because I don’t “belong” in Poland anymore either. Everything seems so complicated especially as I’ve gotten older with having to get the right documentation for work and opening a bank account and etc also… Not even sure if I can vote in the next general election even though I feel like I should be able to?
I’ve had a few nasty instances of being told to go back to my own country, even had a conker thrown at my head while a boy yelled Polski at me in year 11, and tbh even just been seen as a novelty and being asked to say something in Polish has gotten really old. I guess I’m just wondering if I’ll ever truly fit in. For some context, I grew up in North England and now live in Wales
I am afraid not.
It’s with you like race. You can’t change it.
If you’re part of any minority you’ll always attract these dumbasses.Sorry, I’d like to tell you something better.
Oh, and the “Say something in Polish” may very well be meant well, even if it’s annoying. Nobody but you knows how often you hear it.
Smile, wave politely, and swear in Polish. Kurva.
That word is too well known nowadays. Needs another one.
Spierdalaj should do it.
It’s on point.
You might feel more comfortable in a larger city. In London every person you meet has a different accent, it’s amazing.
No ones truly anything, nationalism is a horrid thing and sorry people have treated you as they have, its more they’re own insecurity then anything to do with you.
I was born in the UK but with a West Indian and an actual Indian grandparent on one side. Lived there my entire life up until relatively recently. There were still people who would consider me not British. When people either in the UK or where I live now ask where I’m from and I tell them I’m British, there are many people who say “but where are you really from?”
But it doesn’t mean anything if I say I’m Jamaican, or Indian, because one I’ve been to for some odd trips as a kid and the other I only transferred through an airport. Yeah my DNA shows that, but my entire life has basically minimal connection to either of those places and a continuous connection to Britain.
I got the accent and the passport, but I didn’t get the skin colour. So these people will always exist who want to make it seem like I’m not “really” British. But that is on them, not me. I am British, whether they like it or not.
This is really a long winded way of saying: there will always be some people who consider you not truly British. Fuck them. They are idiots that have at best shackled themselves to some outdated view of what it means to be “British” and at worst want to shutter the whole country off to anyone who doesn’t look or speak like them and pull us all back to the stone age.
I think if you speak to people you are close with about this they would consider you British. If you speak with Baz down at the Red Lion he’ll ask you for a pierogi and then fall asleep in his own vomit after a few too many pints of carling. I think Baz is much less important than all of the real people in your life and most of all, the way you view yourself.
I grew up in a small northern town. Most of the people in my family and that town are fairly racist, mainly because they haven’t encountered many people who aren’t white British. There’s a lot of closed mindedness in the UK sadly.
Whenever someone asks where you’re from, just get more specific with where you grew up. Never with where your parents or ancestors are from.
Country. County. Town. District. Block. Nearest intersection or landmark. Which room of the house was yours.
If they don’t get the picture or ask about your background, you could say “I thought you wanted to know about me, not my parents”.
This is genius
Where are you from? London. No. Where were you born? 6th Avenue.
That’s how I handled my high school year abroad. Because I literally came from Germany, I replied to that question with “I am from Germany”. Not “I am German”, but “from Germany”. I was born and raised there and only lived there. Only if it came up (e.g. because of my passport) or made sense in context, I mentioned that I am a Russian from Germany. So basically most people only found out about my genetics five months in. But of course that works much easier when you pass due to looks and accent.
The racists and xenophobes will never accept you. There’s no fixing some people’s brains. The good thing is, especially as you get older and able to do various kinds of work, you don’t have to associate with those kinds of jerks very often. It’s your community, it’s your country, and they don’t get to be the gatekeepers of who counts as local, no matter how hard they try.
Bigots don’t define labels - if you think you’re British you’re British enough for me.
I’m an immigrant as well (though the cultural differences between Canada and America are much less evident) and anyone who says I’m not Canadian can get fucking bent.
Born Canuck here. Yes one of us, ya hoser.
The moment I started saying zed by default, I knew it!
Knowing what a conker is makes you super British.
Yeah, I’m American and have no idea what a conker is unless it’s having a bad fur day.
Please explain
/Non-British
It’s the name/game given to chestnuts where you put a hole through the chestnut and pass some string through and tie it off.
The game is simple you try and break your opponents conker with yours. Taken turns.
The defender holds the string steady with his conker straight down
The attacker uses his conker to try and break the defenders using a sort of downwards flick.
Horse chestnuts, not chestnuts, chestnuts are soft and you eat them on bonfire night, horse chestnuts are hard and you can crack skulls with them.
It’s curious, I have a similar story but with different countries, and the reactions are VERY different. I was born in Argentina, but my family emigrated to Brazil when I was 13 years old. I speak fluent Portuguese but obviously have an accent that people can’t quite place, but once it’s pointed out they notice it. Yet the vast majority of my interactions about it are something similar to:
- Where are you from?
- I was born in Argentina, but lived in Brazil over 16 years
- Ah, so you’re mostly Brazilian then
And I think that that says a lot about Brazilians and how they’re very welcoming and friendly. Unfortunately the British don’t seem to be the same way, at least from your experience, maybe people in larger cities are more used to immigrants so they would see you as mostly British or something.
As for the voting, for me at least the only way was to become a citizen, most countries allow you to ask for citizenship if you’ve been living legally long enough so you probably qualify. Just bear in mind that some countries ask you to abandon your other citizenships when you do so, so not sure if that’s your case and if it’s worth it just to be able to vote.
Perhaps recognize your truly cosmopolitan background as a citizen of the world ? Maybe fitting in nowhere is the beginning of fitting in everywhere ?
And grab that slur with both hands, flip it, and make it your own.
I am born and raised in England to Indian parents so always had some internal tension. Sometimes, I don’t understand my patents culture and sometimes I don’t understand English culture. However, I’ve realised I am who I am, and can take the best bits from both. There are some bits I don’t like so I’m the better for being / having that mix. I married an Irish person who moved over several years ago. Irish used to be the “other” and were screwed over, but now are sometimes considered “white”, so just shows the target moves.
There has always been racism in British society and unfortunately I have felt it pick up since the Brexit vote and Trump’s election (I think it empowered them). However, it is from a small minority of people. In some areas it comes from ignorance, which I can kind of forgive. Others will always see us as outsiders with our foreign names (and my brown skin) no matter what we do. I just think, screw them. I mean, can they trace themselves back before the Normans, the Romans or the Vikings etc? Where do you draw the line exactly?!? England has always been a mix of people and culture so they’re the ones missing out. I’m happy driving my Korean car to a German store to buy ingredients for a Thai green curry. Oh, I’ll grab a French pastry for breakfast, Chilean wine for the weekend and well, you get the idea! Let’s make the most of this multicultural place and ideas, and who cares about bigots who you can guarantee, like a cheeky korma and Belgian beer…
Definitely relate to not quite fitting in with either culture! I’m grateful for the perspective my heritage has given me on national identity and how I view different customs as a whole, because I think it has made me more understanding of others. But I definitely feel most understood myself when with other people who are dual identity, no matter what those identities are - there are definitely common threads we all share, from trying to fit in and camouflage to the dissonance we feel when considering what it would be like to move back to our country of origin
I know the feeling. I’ve been in the USA for decades, almost my entire life, but as soon as I say anything, everyone can immediately hear that I’m not American. People who ask me about it are well-meaning and curious. I still don’t like it, but I try not to show it.
That well meaning curiosity is the America I know.
I was born in North Carolina, I speak with a textbook Piedmont white guy drawl. I’m as American as high fructose corn syrup, no question. Here’s some hell I’ve caught: Europeans struggle to cope when I describe myself as “German and a little Scottish.” To me, that’s my ethnic background, to a lot of Europeans I’ve argued with, it’s stolen valor. “You’re not personally from Germany, you aren’t German.” Then explain my genome. Or my surname.
I think us who live in the New World have a whole different understanding of diaspora.
Well, imagine you meet a guy travelling through the US. He’s wearing lederhosen, has a freaking feather in his hat, and speaks with a heavy German accent. You ask where he’s from, and he says he’s American/Italian, as his maternal grandfather was born in the US and his grandmother on his father’s side is Italian. However, this is his first time outside of Germany, and he speaks no Italian and hardly any English.
This is what Americans tend to look like to Europeans.
See what I mean? And I bet Herr Wernher von Bianchi would have way more interesting stories to tell than most genuine Germans.
Reminds me of Japanese drivers licenses, which don’t have a field for eye or hair color the way Western ones do. Not pertinent information in Japan where virtually everyone has black hair and brown eyes, it’s like having a field for tongue color. The answer for everyone is “What? Reddish pink I guess? Why?”
Now imagine you’re making a form for people to fill out about their background and personal history. Europeans apparently cannot imagine needing more than one line to answer the question “Where are you from?” because of how short and boring their own answers always are.
Say you have German and Scottish ancestry. Omitting that part makes it sound like you’re saying you’re culturally German and Scottish.
I knew they’d come out of the woodwork to make my point for me.
I mean, if they’re being an asshole about it there’s no excuse - it’s just imprecise wording that may cause confusion.
You seem like a decent thoughtful person, and I would rather have you as a fellow Brit than the knobheads that throw conkers at you.
Defining a person by their nationality is pretty stupid when you consider that we are all on the same rock hurtling through the unfathomable depths of space. My grandad always had to know where a person was from in order to put them into a specific box in his mind. I always found it utterly disgusting and just weird. I guess there will always be people like that, but it’s learned behaviour. Kids don’t care where someone is from until they are told it’s important by an idiot adult.
I’m waffling now, but it genuinely doesn’t matter where you are from. One of the few things that makes me proud to be British is the fact that we are a big melting pot of different cultures. We are enhanced by having British people with different heritages. I don’t know if you are planning on applying for British nationality, but I would be delighted if you did. I, and a huge majority of Brits would welcome you with open arms, while the bigots amongst us can fuck off and go and be miserable in their own nasty little corner.
For what it’s worth, if you’ve lived here since you were six, I’d absolutely consider you British.
British with Polish roots maybe, and perhaps officially Polish in legal terms (re your passport), but this is your home, so perception-wise I’d definitely call you British.
Re working and voting, that’s where it gets more complicated and I don’t know what the rules say, although it would seem hugely unfair for you not to have those rights having lived here for such a large proportion of your life. You could maybe try your local Citizen’s Advice Bureau for more informed advice on those points.
Sorry you experienced the kind of abuse/patronising attitudes as you describe - some people are just arseholes unfortunately. Doesn’t make them right though.
I hope that things get easier for you, and that as time passes you feel more accepted by those around you and are able to take part in regular life as much as possible.
Before reading, know that my response is mostly off-topic.
As an American it always seemed strange to me the perception of someone as an outsider. I know other Americans do it too so it’s not like we are some special snowflake country, we have a lot of intolerance of course.
But idk, to me Americans have all sorts of accents, indian/asian, hispanic, african, australian, whatever. I never considered that someone who sounds different wouldn’t be the same as every other American.
Not sure if this train of thought is shared by other countries. I have heard that Japanese people will basically never consider anyone not native to Japan as anything other than foreign. That is a strange thought to me.
I guess I’m bad at being bigoted.
Maybe because they’re both island nations with an isolationist culture, but there are definitely parallels to be drawn between the treatment foreigners get in the UK and in Japan. Growing up, being Polish was the identity others assigned to me and how they identified me and the main way in which I was described, and people make a lot of assumptions about me based on it. I used to get asked if I was Jewish a lot growing up because I have pretty stereotypically Slavic features, for example, and one time a teacher described me as “sallow skinned” after seeing I have an ethnic name on the school register.
We’re a larger melting pot. In fact, that’s kind of our schtick. In spite of the racial shit, it swings entirely the other way as well. It’s a big country. England doesn’t cover a lot of surface area. 68million vs 341.5million.
Regionally there’s dialect nuance based on immigration. We’re a country of immigrants. If we’re discussing Poland then let’s talk Wisconsin. You can’t throw a stick in any direction without hitting a “ski” last name. People actually say shit like “borrow me your car Friday” or “borrow me a pencil”, instead of “lend”. My understanding is borrow and lend are the same word in Polish, context telling you what you need to know. All without identifying as Polish, just Midwest American, as far as I can tell. Even though we’re younger as a country, we’ve had time for that to happen.
People actually say shit like “borrow me your car Friday” or “borrow me a pencil”, instead of “lend”.
That’s correct. The distinction between lender and borrower is given by the case, so the same verb works for both.
I think that the key difference is that plenty societies were built with the “immigration” mindset. It isn’t just the ones in USA, but mostly the whole New World. And even if the “bulk” of the immigration in the XIX and XX centuries is over, the mindset is still here.
As opposed to the typical society in the Old World where, if you were born somewhere, odds are that your grand-grand-grand-grandparents were also born there, like Japan and UK-minus-London.
Australia is great at this. It has a crazy number of migrants, if I’m not mistaken 50% of people is either 1st Gen Australian or 0th Gen like OP and me.
