Saw this today, and … well, I’m not going to be so forgiving to people suggesting to vote Third Party rather than vote for Biden. If Trump wants me to do something, and you want me to do that same something, that tells me you’re aligned with Trump.
Saw this today, and … well, I’m not going to be so forgiving to people suggesting to vote Third Party rather than vote for Biden. If Trump wants me to do something, and you want me to do that same something, that tells me you’re aligned with Trump.
Its irrelevant because right now, Trump isn’t president. Biden is.
You apologetics are costing us this election. Stop.
If you mean “us” as a third-party voter, you will never win the election as long as the system is still first past the post.
If you mean “us” as a Republican, then all I can say is that you’re the problem for not taking the trash out and letting him run again in 2024.
By ‘us’ I mean any one who doesn’t want Trump to be the next president.
Your rhetoric is costing us this election.
Fuck, I don’t want him as a president either!
The people abstaining from voting or voting third party need to get their heads out of their asses and understand they’re not doing anything but helping that insurrectionist turnip by doing so. If they aren’t willing to consider that their actions can have that consequence, they weren’t going to use their vote in any meaningful way to begin with.
You don’t seem to understand that you are the one with their heads up there ass and have been this whole time, to the point where its not even clear that this election is salvageable. How you are arguing that people should vote doesn’t work and isn’t convincing people to support Biden. Its having the opposite effect. If you keep relying on this approach to rhetoric, you are guaranteeing we’ll get Trump as president. The only thing that is working is upping the pressure on Biden to do better, and apologizing for his shittiness to date by arguing that “We’ll Trump is probably worse” is basically an argument to not support Biden, so just stop apologizing for him. Start calling on him and his apologists to demand better; its the only thing that stands an icecubes chance in hell of saving this election for him/ us. He needs to feel so isolated and see the writing on the wall so plainly that he see’s himself as having no other option.
Saying you’ll be supporting him in-spite of his shitty policy positions means he doesn’t have to move to your policy position. And there are enough people out there that aren’t going to vote for this guy based on his policy positions that he wont win without them. Brow beating and wagging your finger at them isn’t going to change them. You have to change Biden. Continuing an approach that is driver voters away from Biden is stupid. Change your approach. Make your arguments to Biden. Call into radio shows. Share you’re new opinion online and don’t let up. We lose if Biden doesn’t change his policy position and months of apologetic (both online and in media) may have cost us the ability to win this election.
I understand where you’re coming from, but respectfully, I disagree with how effective it would be. If telling somebody that their actions will lead to a Trump victory and explaining how much worse that will be not only for Palestinians but for Americans doesn’t convince them to choose the lesser of two evils, nothing short of replacing Biden in the next election will work.
Skepticism runs really deep in the current political climate, and even if Biden changed his mind tomorrow and withdrew support, those voters are still going to distrust the motives behind it. For all they believe, it’s an election year, and Biden is just making an empty promise to stay in power. He could easily turn around and resume support once he regains his position, and they’re not going to trust that he won’t when they “know” he was more than happy to support their genocide before he got in trouble for it.
That’s not to say I am supporting Biden or apologizing for his actions. I’m right there with you when it comes to trying to demonstrate my dislike for his handling of the conflict, but I’m also voicing my concerns that whatever election cycle Trump is participating in isn’t the time to practice a hard line stance on voting third party to express your dislike of both the Republican and Democratic candidates.
I agree. If not for the apologists making excuses for Biden’s shitty policy positions (Any blue will do/ Trump is worse), we maybe could have gotten to him early enough to salvage this mess. But continuing to apologize for Biden’s shitty policies is continuing to damage his electoral chances. Its the only option we have at this point, barring a complete rebellion at the convention.
I think, in hindsight, I was very wrong about this.
If months of pussyfooting around dropping support for the Israeli government in spite of public outcry and Democrat voters’ desires hasn’t done anything, maybe we’re not actually something that Biden cares about. I don’t think Israel holds that much value in military intelligence that it’s worth risking both tarnishing the United States’ global reputation and being hated by his own voter base over.
Either he’s expecting to win, just by virtue of his opposition being worse, and doing what he wants because of it (which you pointed out), or he’s doing what his party was paid to do by lobbyists. It doesn’t make sense for someone who is supposed to be representing his voters to go through so much effort to avoid listening to them unless there are greater interests at play. Either way, something is very fucked up about this election cycle, and it’s going to have some nasty consequences for the future.
Hey thanks for bumping this and coming around.
I’m giving the entire post/ thread a re-read, because boy, is it both damning and telling.
Even in a scenario where nobody took the “he’s better than Trump approach,” I think it would have still been too late.
Any hesitation in taking a stance against genocide is going to look like a begrudging concession. I agree that the optics are even worse now that it has gone on for half a year without any significant change, but he cemented the public perception of himself by the end of the first week of continued support after we were all made aware of Israel’s actions. Changing his mind at any point after that looks like a politician doing what a slimy politician does: chasing public opinion to stay in power.
Granted, it might have worked to convince some people. But, I believe there’s enough of an overlap between that demographic and the “any blue will do” voters that the only ones left would have permanently rejected the idea of voting for him the moment they felt he supported genocide. That is to say, I think the only people left not choosing him over Trump are either disenfranchised voters or hardline moralists who don’t realize what’s at stake by letting Trump win.