They do not. I’ve kept several old ICEs running for years with barely any significant ICE-related costs (I STILL haven’t replaced a single timing chain, turbo, or injector, but obviously I’ve done oil changes and timing belts). Maybe 1k for maintenance and repairs per year if I’m unlucky and get a lemon. Oh and I gravitate towards aging German executive and luxury cars lol
But the battery on an Audi E-Tron is something like 60 or 70 grand. 20k used. The cars are under 30k now and they’re not even out of warranty yet. Nobody’s going to be replacing any of those batteries out of warranty, all those cars will be landfill.
In comparison, if we’re doing used parts, 20k gets you a lightly used engine AND modern 8-speed auto transmission AND a professional to fit them and for some models you still have enough left over to spend 10k on cocaine and hookers.
The Audi is at the far high end of that cost. Not surprising for the German brand. Hyundai IONIQ 5 (one of the most popular EVs outside of Tesla) are closer to $10k. Even the Volkswagen ID.4 is looking closer to $25k.
Count up literally everything. Oil changes. New spark plugs. Coolant flushes. Transmission flushes. EVs using regen braking tend to put less wear on the brakes, and hybrids were already looking at brakes being on there for the life of the car, so add brake changes, too. Even if you do your own work, you should be counting a reasonable hourly rate in there for your time. A huge amount of maintenance just plain goes away with EVs.
If you don’t believe me, find a PDF of an owner’s manual for the the recommended maintenance schedule on an EV and compare it to ICE. Dealerships are doing that, and they do not like the results at all. Takes a whole lot business away from them. In fact, some of the stuff listed almost feels like it was stuck in there just so dealers would have something for their mechanics to do.
The maintenance schedule on my bz4x wants to bring it in every 5000 miles to check that all the nuts are torqued down and the tires haven’t fallen off.
Add on to that EV batteries in real use are lasting a lot longer than expected. This is maybe not surprising. Lab testing is done by charging and discharging many times sequentially and extrapolating those results. If anything, that’s much harsher than real world conditions.
All that, even over 10 or 20 years, is still less than a single battery. And the battery is an unexpected one time cost when the stuff you mentioned is mostly expected.
I base my ICE maintenance and repair cost expectations off Audi, BMW and Mercedes, why would I look at Hyundai or VW for EV repair costs?
And the battery is an unexpected one time cost when the stuff you mentioned is mostly expected.
Nope, not how it works at all. It doesn’t just stop working. It slowly loses its top end power over time. In fact, when you pull it, it’s still good for other things like home power storage.
Battery failure is unpredictable and the charge capacity can take an absolute nosedive over just a few months after years of being completely ok. There’s a reason there’s no standard model for battery wear
When we analyzed EV battery health in 2019, we found that EV batteries degraded, on average, at a rate of 2.3% per year. However, a new 2024 analysis reveals a significant improvement: EV batteries now degrade at an average of 1.8% per year. This improvement highlights ongoing advancements in battery technology and durability.
According to Geotab research, EV batteries could last 20 years or more if degradation continues at this improved rate. This is particularly encouraging for fleet operators under pressure to reduce CO2 emissions.
In all likelihood, the car will be replaced for other reasons before battery range drops too far.
Interesting, stark difference from lithium batteries then.
1.8% per year is still way too much over 10 years though, let alone 20. People only talk about EVs as new cars, but people forget most people can’t afford to buy brand new cars.
For early EVs, where the battery life is “relatively short” (think 100K miles), yes. But ICE engine life up until about the late 80s was around that, too. Now it’s more like 200K miles before a major engine repair costs more than it’s worth doing. EV batteries are getting to around the same 200K mile threshold, and while the battery replacement will be expensive, it’ll be the same “not wortht the cost, time to buy a new car” that a comparable ICE car would be.
It’s specific engines and they haven’t built those engines in a long time. I’d be more vary of their diesels splitting crankshafts.
In reality the eventual EV battery replacement cost is several times that of the head gasket job anyway.
EV battery replacements are one big cost in the future. The hundred little things to keep an ICE going over the years add up to a lot more than that.
They do not. I’ve kept several old ICEs running for years with barely any significant ICE-related costs (I STILL haven’t replaced a single timing chain, turbo, or injector, but obviously I’ve done oil changes and timing belts). Maybe 1k for maintenance and repairs per year if I’m unlucky and get a lemon. Oh and I gravitate towards aging German executive and luxury cars lol
But the battery on an Audi E-Tron is something like 60 or 70 grand. 20k used. The cars are under 30k now and they’re not even out of warranty yet. Nobody’s going to be replacing any of those batteries out of warranty, all those cars will be landfill.
In comparison, if we’re doing used parts, 20k gets you a lightly used engine AND modern 8-speed auto transmission AND a professional to fit them and for some models you still have enough left over to spend 10k on cocaine and hookers.
The Audi is at the far high end of that cost. Not surprising for the German brand. Hyundai IONIQ 5 (one of the most popular EVs outside of Tesla) are closer to $10k. Even the Volkswagen ID.4 is looking closer to $25k.
Count up literally everything. Oil changes. New spark plugs. Coolant flushes. Transmission flushes. EVs using regen braking tend to put less wear on the brakes, and hybrids were already looking at brakes being on there for the life of the car, so add brake changes, too. Even if you do your own work, you should be counting a reasonable hourly rate in there for your time. A huge amount of maintenance just plain goes away with EVs.
If you don’t believe me, find a PDF of an owner’s manual for the the recommended maintenance schedule on an EV and compare it to ICE. Dealerships are doing that, and they do not like the results at all. Takes a whole lot business away from them. In fact, some of the stuff listed almost feels like it was stuck in there just so dealers would have something for their mechanics to do.
The maintenance schedule on my bz4x wants to bring it in every 5000 miles to check that all the nuts are torqued down and the tires haven’t fallen off.
Add on to that EV batteries in real use are lasting a lot longer than expected. This is maybe not surprising. Lab testing is done by charging and discharging many times sequentially and extrapolating those results. If anything, that’s much harsher than real world conditions.
All that, even over 10 or 20 years, is still less than a single battery. And the battery is an unexpected one time cost when the stuff you mentioned is mostly expected.
I base my ICE maintenance and repair cost expectations off Audi, BMW and Mercedes, why would I look at Hyundai or VW for EV repair costs?
Nope, not how it works at all. It doesn’t just stop working. It slowly loses its top end power over time. In fact, when you pull it, it’s still good for other things like home power storage.
Battery failure is unpredictable and the charge capacity can take an absolute nosedive over just a few months after years of being completely ok. There’s a reason there’s no standard model for battery wear
Nope not how it works at all. It drops off slowly:
https://www.geotab.com/CMS-Media-production/Blog/NA/December_2019/battery_degradation/ev-battery-degradation-tesla-models-vs-nissan-leaf.png
Here’s the complete study: https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
In all likelihood, the car will be replaced for other reasons before battery range drops too far.
Interesting, stark difference from lithium batteries then.
1.8% per year is still way too much over 10 years though, let alone 20. People only talk about EVs as new cars, but people forget most people can’t afford to buy brand new cars.
For early EVs, where the battery life is “relatively short” (think 100K miles), yes. But ICE engine life up until about the late 80s was around that, too. Now it’s more like 200K miles before a major engine repair costs more than it’s worth doing. EV batteries are getting to around the same 200K mile threshold, and while the battery replacement will be expensive, it’ll be the same “not wortht the cost, time to buy a new car” that a comparable ICE car would be.