An attempted carjacking Saturday night left a 13-year-old dead after a security officer shot him; another boy, 12, is in custody
A lot of people seem to mistake carjacking for car theft. Especially mentioning that the person who shot the 13 year old was a security officer gives a wrong impression on what happened.
Carjacking is when the robber(s) take control of a car with a person inside the car. This is what happened here, with the security guard being inside the car. Under these circumstances it’s perfectly reasonable to consider shooting the robbers and it’s unreasonable to expect the security guard being able to identify the robber as a 13-year old harmless child. There is significant plausible risk to the person inside the car to warrent lethal force during self-defense.
Car theft is stealing an empty car. Shooting someone would be entirely unreasonable during a car theft.
The article doesn’t mention wether the car had window tint and the two kids where unaware of the person inside or if they intentionally tried to rob the person. That information might change what can be considered reasonable response.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Imagine how fucked and shitty your life has to be, to be a 12 or 13 year old trying to carjack people.
Not bad at all. Rich kids do horrific shit all the time. Like rape people, drive drunk and kill people, etc etc forever. This is just some kid who played gta, had some mental issues, went out and did shit, then didn’t have rich immoral parents to pay people off and bury it.
I didn’t suggest rich kids were immune?
But they are. 🤷♂️
It’s lemmy! Where regardless of what topic you bring, you’ll just get “rich people suck” and “fuck capitalism” as incoherent, tone deaf responses.
I’m not tone deaf. They’re saying that their life must suck. I’m saying that shitty behavior isn’t related to quality of life. I get that you’re center-right and middle class and tired of having to hear people talk about topics that don’t apply to you personally. But… grow up.
Being rich doesn’t mean your life doesn’t suck, just that you don’t have money problems.
Did you have a shitty childhood too?
Don’t forget “America bad,” “what’s a tankie,” and “DEFEDERATE!!!”
You think Americas good?
We have plenty of issues but it’s pretty good here overall.
I bet a guy called “show me your asshole” sets the bar pretty damn low, even if you’re a proctologist.
Being rich and having a fucked up and shitty life aren’t mutually exclusive.
deleted by creator
rape people, drive drunk and kill people
one of those is not quite as bad as the others
I think you think there are three items in that list when there are only two.
The article links to another article and identified it with the boy who was killed. He went on a one night crime spree brandishing a gun and carjacking two cars and assaulting another in a failed carjacking. It’s a crazy world.
That’s not normal behavior, it’s just sad. Society is failing
Well it’s because gun stores in America sell nukes to fetuses without a background check because capitalism is bad.
It’s worth noting that DC largely had its gun problem under control until the supreme Court told them they weren’t allowed to enforce effective gun violence prevention laws.
Society is failing
how often does this sort of thing happen versus 20 years ago
We did some pretty fucked up things when I was a teenager and while our lives did suck, the risky choices and crime were from being young and stupid, not poverty.
Having nothing to lose is a hell of a thing
Being in prison or the juvenile court system is rarely an improvement regardless of how much your life sucks.
Some shitty 12 and 13 year old kids have great childhoods and are just shitty.
not everyone gets a decent childhood
Note to thread: An off-duty security officer with the U.S. Marshal’s Service is not a security guard.
Rumour has it that she called him by his full name – middle name and all.
And took off her slipper?
La Chancla! 🩴
Kamehamechancla!
I never mentioned poverty…
The worst part of this is that a security guard (not even a police officer) shot and killed a 13 year old child for attempting to steal a car. No one’s life is worth more than some vehicle
They approached from both sides of the car with their hand on their waistbands as if they had a weapon. Was he supposed to magic his way out of that? Talk to them? Plead?
He had a gun. They threatened a person with a gun. This is what happens sometimes when you do that. It’s the risk you assume when you take up carjacking. It’s a high-risk occupation.
Carjacking is not punishable by summary execution.
No, but intentionally making somebody think you have a weapon and are threatening them with it is inherently risky, since people panic and may try to defend themselves (and this isn’t exactly unreasonable either, a car might not be worth lives, sure, but cooperating with a criminal threatening you with a weapon isn’t necessarily going to prevent them from using it anyway depending on their motivations and what they perceive you to be doing, and people threatened in such a manner can’t reasonably be expected to act rationally anyway).
If you are prone to panic, the last thing you should have is a gun.
Pretty much any person in existence is going to panic at least to some degree if you surprise them with a weapon. In any case, I wasn’t getting into the weeds about gun control with that, Im generally in favor of gun control myself, though with a few caveats, but what I was more trying to get at is that it isn’t unreasonable for someone threatening someone with a weapon to end up dead, not because I personally think they should be killed (I don’t), but because when you go out of your way to do something that is by nature going to provoke one heck of a fight or flight response in people, some people are going to fight, and in fights people sometimes die. A gun makes that more likely of course, but it can still happen regardless (such as if other weapons, like a heavy object that can be used as a club, or a car for that matter, are available, or if the attacker does have a weapon but the victim mamages to take it, or just from getting punched in the wrong place). Obviously the intended victim can go too far, like if they continue to attack a fleeing assailant, but in general, the responsibility for someone getting killed in that kind of scenario is primarily on the person who caused that scenario, the attacker. Hence why we often consider someone guilty of murder if they commit a violent crime and someone gets killed as a result, even if that person didn’t themselves do the killing.
I see a fuck ton of mental gymnastics here.
You are in a thread about a US Marshal, not acting as a US Marshal, shooting dead a 13 year old who didn’t even actually have a gun.
Please. Dive into the weeds. This child needed help, not a bullet.
America needs gun control. Direly.
If he was acting in a way as to trick someone into thinking he had a gun, then you can hardly blame the other party for not realizing that he did not actually have one. And for that matter, even with gun control, a US marshal is exactly the kind of person one would expect to still be decently likely to have one.
I agree that America needs gun control, the reason why I haven’t been talking about it as much here is that I think that in this specific instance in particular, it probably would not have helped, and so isnt as good a case for arguing it, as, say, those times when some idiot decides that shooting someone for using their driveway to turn around is somehow justified. I am not doing this as some kind of mental gymnastics to justify private gun ownership. I do not own a gun, nor do I feel particularly comfortable around them. I just don’t feel that the issue is especially relevant to what happened in this case, assuming the reporting of the incident or my quick reading of it have not missed some important details.
America needs gun control. Direly.
This is true, but doesn’t negate any of the other facts of the situation. They were essentially threatening him with weapons. Was the guy supposed to ask the boys nicely to prove that they were armed before defending himself? If they really were armed, that could easily have gotten him shot.
The situation sucks for everyone involved, but most people in that guy’s position would have done the same thing.
This child needed help, not a bullet.
Also agreed. But he tried to carjack an armed person with threats of violence. Are you trying to tell me that if two boys were threatening to shoot you, you’d calmly try to get them help?
Why do you keep emphasizing their age? It’s not like the shooter knew how old the little shit was.
Let me put this into simpler words. If you’re committing a crime, and someone tries to stop you. You put your hands in your pocket like you’re about to pull something out of it. The person who stopped you has no idea what you’re going to pull out of your pocket, it could be a gun, it could be your phone, it could be something else. We don’t know what you’re reaching for, and if the other person believed their life was in danger, they have every right to pull out their gun and defend their self. While I do agree that America needs gun control, I also believe that the U.S Marshal was in the right for defending their self. They fucked around, and that 13 year old found out.
Maybe don’t carjack anyone and put yourself in a position where someone feels threatened enough to do this? By the other article linked, this kid went on a little crime spree and fucked around enough to find out. Sucks for his family, but this was inevitable.
They were 12 and 13. “Fuck around and find out” they’re children. Get some fucking empathy
Children doing very adult crimes.
We’re all children. I don’t give a damn how old they were, they fucked around and found out and now they have to face the consequences. Your age, your race, and other things don’t excuse you of the crimes you committed, or attempted to commit.
Thanks captain obvious.
“Just stop it or die” isn’t a rally cry I can get behind.
Kid needed help, not a bullet.
He decided to trick someone into believing he’s a mortal threat. Victims shouldn’t have to risk their life because you don’t like the result. It’s a tragic outcome, but it’s a story he wrote.
I hope we can all agree he needed help rather than a bullet.
I would agree unless the carjacker appears to have a gun. Like its not great a 13 year old died but with how weapons are designed. Its quite easy for a 13 year old to end a life (intentionally or not) if armed.
Please take a moment.
A 13 year old without a gun was shot dead by an off duty US Marshal.
Now please consider what you just said, while acknowledging the context.
Please take a moment.
A detective testified that surveillance video showed the two suspects going to the car as they both put their hands on their waistbands, as if to indicate they both had a weapon.
Now please consider what you just said, while acknowledging the context.
On a more serious note, are you implying cops have futuresight? I sure hope that is what you are implying. Since you have to be a fool to take a fucking threat lightly no matter the age of the individual who is perpetrating it. I’m sorry but a 5 year with a fucking gun can kill someone, sure as hell a 13 year old implying they have a gun who is trying to car jack someone may be seen as a credible threat. its unfortunate that this young man didn’t find a way to be a productive member of society and with his death he will never find that. We can’t lose sight that if you bring/suggest you brought a deadly weapon into a situation you have forfeited your right to life (you can’t infringe on another person’s right to life and expect no pushback for it) until you are disarmed and immobilized. You may take this as pro cop talking points but no this is being a fucking realist, it can happen to anyone at anytime.
Cops should be held to some of the highest standards. They are in theory the enforcers of the law and the public would lose trust if that gets abused. That is why we are currently in the situation we are in right now. Cops are being recorded and rightfully so. The justice system already favors cops. So I’m 100% down for being skeptical of cops but in this case I’m sorry you are way out of line.
As people say: FAFO.
Dude, stop trying to justify violent crime.
It appears you are incorrect
Sadly.
deleted by creator
It would seem the gun lovin’ boot lickin’ rootin tootin reddit fuckwads have well and truly moved in to Lemmy, if your up and down vote counts are anything to go by.
No one’s car is worth more than a human life.
Carjackers (especially young carjackers) kill cooperating victims on the regular around here. My car isn’t worth a human life, but my car isn’t what’s being threatened in a carjacking.
Its a bit funny since isn’t a large following for lemmy in the super super far left end of it to the ends of communism and Karl Marx states
Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary
― Karl Marx
So you are trying to label your opposition as “redditors”. Your human life is being threaten, not your car you numbnuts
Your own life and safety is worth shooting and killing someone over, you don’t know what someone’s intentions are when they approach you.
Also, just let them take your stuff? Fuck you. Do you think I have the money to just go and buy a new car at the drop of a hat?
it looked like it was a US marshal. it doesn’t justify a life, but i would be hard pressed to find a marshal that would react differently to an attempted car jacking.
Actual law enforcement need to he prohibited from moonlighting as security guards.
Nothing good ever comes of it.
They just get a taste for doing what they consider to be their day job without official oversight.
deleted by creator
“Security guard” = US Marshall
“13 year old” = person on a crime spree who had a loaded firearm (deadly weapon)
“Steal a car” = steal a car with the US Marshall still inside, most likely while threatening them with previously mentioned firearm.
This person is the one who put the value of a car above a human life. If someone is willing to put a gun in my face for the sake of personal gain, I see no way how defending myself, even with deadly force, would be not justified.
Carjacking ≠ car theft
Imagine youre sitting on the toilet taking a shit and I kick the door down and throw you to the ground and start overflowing your porcelain throne with gallons of sticky, oily poo juice.
It’s a tad worse than me breaking in and just taking your toilet back to my place and having my way with it there.
deleted by creator
For me that’s the best part, guess we’ll agree to disagree!
Self-defense is one thing.
Car-defense is another.
If somebody is threatening your life for your stuff then they are still threatening your life. Their motive doesn’t change the fact that they are threatening to kill you.
But no lives were actually threatened.
An unarmed 13 year old who could pantomime met a grown ass US Marshal.
Once again the actual intent doesn’t matter because that was only known to them. The only people who knew if they actually had weapons or not were them and you’re going to fault people for believing them when they said they did. They were threatening another persons life (once again no one knew they were faking it except them) that is the only thing that maters in this situation.
They knowingly made the marshal believe they had weapons, was the marshal just supposed to let themself get shot? There are a lot of things to criticize US police for, but protecting themselves when there is a clear, deliberate, and imminent threat on their lives is not one of them.
Yes it’s sad that a troubled kid with an underdeveloped brain made a stupid decision and was killed for it. But that doesn’t make it ok to victim blame someone for defending themself from a threat upon their life.
"Once again the actual intent doesn’t "
The fuck it doesn’t, you absolute goddam monster.
Ok rather than childish name calling, explain to me how that marshal had any way of knowing what their intent was. Also it is convient how you left the last part of that sentence off.
Seems most people here think you are the monster.
That person cannot know the intent, only that it appears their life is threatened, your shortsighted if you cannot see that.
If I poke you in your back with a stick and say “do exactly as I say and you might, just might, live through this”
Are you seriously going to:
- go “nah bro, I don’t believe you, go home, you’re drunk” or
- are you going to take me very fucking seriously and not only comply but also try to think really hard and fast about getting out of dodge using any (and I do mean any) means necessary because you reasonably assume I have a loaded gun pressed against your back?
If you answer the first option, then we stop now, as you’re clearly being dishonest.
Well… you won’t believe me, but when I was walking home through an alley at night after my community College classes, and I had a .22 pressed into my back shoulder with a voice saying “don’t fucking move”, I turned around (pretty slowly in fact), took the gun (quite casually in fact) and then watched the dude run.
Then I called 911, turned the gun over to the cops, and filed a report.
I didn’t have a gun myself, and I didn’t shoot at his back with his gun.
So ya… I see what you are trying to do, but personally, I think I’m just pretty dumb and not a pussy.
Cops told me the guy was a simple mugger who had been working the block for about a month, and I should have just given him my wallet, but they also seemed pretty jazzed to have his gun.
you won’t believe me
Correct. I did not.
I think I’m just pretty dumb
At least we agree on something
Cops told me the guy was a simple mugger who had been working the block for about a month, and I should have just given him my wallet, but they also seemed pretty jazzed to have his gun.
And then everyone clapped
Great job sugartits.
You won the internet with your “he should have murdered that unarmed 13 year old” rhetoric.
Feel like a big boy now?
Cus all I see is you and your kin. A bunch of piss babies running round with your guns.
No mass shootings ended. But yall real efficient bout murdering brown children.
You argue like a child. Assuming you’re a tankie.
What about self defense when in a car?
What about self defense in a box?
Self defense from a fox?
Self defense on top of rocks?
Self defense like fort Knox?
Your levity at the summary execution of a 13 year old speaks for itself.
Your inability to comprehend basic written information is concerning.
Maybe block this instance, your opinions seem incompatible with the majority opinion here.
Removed by mod
Low tier fruit here.
Great arguement, were all convinced you’re not an illiterate shitstack now.
